MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

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Bruce Leiser_owitz
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1001 Post by Bruce Leiser_owitz » April 12th, 2018, 8:52 am

Don--Given the fact that the article you posted the other day has been removed from the website to which you linked, and given that there's a substantial question about the political motivation/orientation of that website, I think it would be prudent to remove your post and its contents.

If someone steps forward later and makes these factual assertions in a more reliable setting (e.g., named sources in a more neutral news setting), then it might be worth coming back to.

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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1002 Post by Neal.Mollen » April 12th, 2018, 8:54 am

Bruce Leiser_owitz wrote:Don--Given the fact that the article you posted the other day has been removed from the website to which you linked, and given that there's a substantial question about the political motivation/orientation of that website, I think it would be prudent to remove your post and its contents.

If someone steps forward later and makes these factual assertions in a more reliable setting (e.g., named sources in a more neutral news setting), then it might be worth coming back to.

Bruce
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1003 Post by RichardFlack » April 12th, 2018, 9:13 am

And who will play Clouseau hot on the trail of the missing wine? (Which is the real issue here at the moment IMHO; and the fact the insurance company saw fit to disburse their hard won denarii suggests its a bit more probable than 'allegedly missing').
If I had 1000 plus bottles go missing Id be calling the police!
The rest is indeed drama, and I have no interest in that.

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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1004 Post by R. Smith » April 12th, 2018, 11:29 am

A.Gillette wrote:
R. Smith wrote:
A.Gillette wrote:
Probably coming at the same time as Don apologizes to Henry Tang.

https://www.jamessuckling.com/wine-tast ... e-too-far/
Alex, the lots in question were and are undoubtedly suspect. Don laid out the basis for his claim in great detail on the Rudy thread. After Don's post, Christie's removed the Methuselah of 1971 La Tache from the Henry Tang auction.

I am surprised you decided to quote James Suckling's article. Do you consider JS to be an objective authority on counterfeit wine?
.

The facts as I understand them: Yes - Don had it removed. And so it wasn’t sold. It was subsequently authenticated by DRC. Did you miss that piece, or do you believe DRC isn’t an objective authority on counterfeit DRC?
Can you point me to a direct article or statement by Aubert (or anyone at DRC) saying the Tang wines were authentic?
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1005 Post by SteveG » April 12th, 2018, 11:57 am

R. Smith wrote:
A.Gillette wrote:
R. Smith wrote:
The facts as I understand them: Yes - Don had it removed. And so it wasn’t sold. It was subsequently authenticated by DRC. Did you miss that piece, or do you believe DRC isn’t an objective authority on counterfeit DRC?
Can you point me to a direct article or statement by Aubert (or anyone at DRC) saying the Tang wines were authentic?
I have only found a couple versions of this, wherein it is stated that the lot was withdrawn after Villaine also expressed concerns, and a "third" party apparently could not authenticate it:

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/ ... of-fakery/

"DRC co-owner and co-director Aubert de Villaine admitted to the Wine Spectator that he had concerns about the bottle: “The capsule is obviously not original,” he said.

“It is impossible for me to say if the bottle contains authentic La Tâche 1962 or not, but faced with doubts, I believe that we would not authenticate it,” he added."
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1006 Post by R. Gaston » April 12th, 2018, 12:13 pm

I think your quote Steve is concerning bottles from another auction and not those of Tang’s collection.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1007 Post by SteveG » April 12th, 2018, 12:19 pm

R. Gaston wrote:I think your quote Steve is concerning bottles from another auction and not those of Tang’s collection.
Thank you, I see you are correct, the article also mentions the Tang bottle a bit below. FWIW, Meanwhile I find articles regarding Tang defending the bottle, but so far nothing suggesting it as successfully authenticated. I will keep looking

(Edit). There is this in Wine Spectator:

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/49048

"After the sale, Christie's and Tang stood by all three lots, saying that DRC had vouched for authenticity."

Although it is just a comment, not a presentation of material.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1008 Post by A.Gillette » April 12th, 2018, 1:21 pm

R. Smith wrote:
Can you point me to a direct article or statement by Aubert (or anyone at DRC) saying the Tang wines were authentic?
Unfortunately Aubert and I don't really run in the same circles, so I can't claim personal knowledge here. And I doubt he authenticates much of anything. However, he does seem to have frequent contact with Christie's, and to express concerns about bottles on occassion, at which point he seems to believe that they are withdrawn from the auction.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1009 Post by ericleehall » April 17th, 2018, 2:51 pm

Sorry if this was already posted:

One side claims $2 million in wine went missing. The other says, that didn't happen.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2018/04 ... -court?h=1
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1010 Post by Nick Ryan » April 17th, 2018, 5:04 pm

ericleehall wrote:Sorry if this was already posted:

One side claims $2 million in wine went missing. The other says, that didn't happen.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2018/04 ... -court?h=1
Curious. Given the apparent specificity of Lazar's responses as to the fate of many of the wines, upon initial reading it's hard not to feel somewhat skeptical of their claim. But then there's the fact that the Buergers' insurance company already paid them in full for the alleged missing wine. Knowing how loathe insurance companies are to hand out any money that they could weasel out of paying makes you wonder what the heck is really going on.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1011 Post by Mark Golodetz » April 17th, 2018, 5:37 pm

Gray did a nice job with the article, and apart from the assortment case of DRC, I struggled to find anything close to the average bottle price. I would love to see the complete list and how it was valued for insurance purposes.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1012 Post by NoahR » April 17th, 2018, 5:56 pm

Sounds to me like Lazar basically was saying, “dude, you can’t claim a bottle was missing when you posted a tasting note on it in CT...”

Buerger not the most upstanding citizen. My guess is that the only entity that gets screwed in this in the insurance company.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1013 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 17th, 2018, 10:38 pm

no such TN in CT (no TNs in CT for the wine in question), unless I looked-up the wrong wine.

It looks like the two parties here might deserve each other ...
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1014 Post by Victor Hong » April 18th, 2018, 3:21 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:no such TN in CT (no TNs in CT for the wine in question), unless I looked-up the wrong wine.

It looks like the two parties here might deserve each other ...
Except one may be too old (not young enough) for the other.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1015 Post by brigcampbell » April 18th, 2018, 4:17 am

So Lazar claims to have identified what happened to 28 of the missing 1,377

Brian, CT has an activity log for all transactions and Lazar obviously has account access. He saw the purchase and consumption / sale activity. Switch to classic mode for a wine you've purchased and consumed, you'll see "transactions" at the very bottom of the page.

Only 1,349 more bottles to go...

These guys deserve each other.

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#1016 Post by Arv R » April 18th, 2018, 9:13 am

one awesome thing is that both these parties will be spending lots of money on lawyers squabbling with each other.
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1017 Post by RichardFlack » April 18th, 2018, 9:22 am

Which in turn will increase demand for fine wine, and hence prices :(

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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1018 Post by Victor Hong » April 18th, 2018, 9:34 am

ericleehall wrote:Sorry if this was already posted:

One side claims $2 million in wine went missing. The other says, that didn't happen.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2018/04 ... -court?h=1
When I was the North America Head of Market and Valuation Risk Management for the JPMorgan MBS/ABS/CMBS/CDO business in 2006 and 2007, Coventry First approached us to finance and perhaps securitize its large portfolio of unseasoned life-settlement policies. I screamed bloody murder, saying that there was no dog-dam, motto-farking way that I would approve taking on essentially a steaming pile of extension-prone, cashflow-parched "People PO CMO tranches", underwritten with outdated mortality tables. Moreover, the pool displayed extremely adverse selection, because the very sophisticated, high-net-worth policyholders took out these life insurance policies not for death benefits to their heirs, but for immediate cash-value sale to aggressive life-settlement investors.

Yes, that Coventry First life-settlement portfolio went to another institutional investor, and blew up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aig- ... SKCN0W22GE
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1019 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 18th, 2018, 9:44 am

brigcampbell wrote:So Lazar claims to have identified what happened to 28 of the missing 1,377

Brian, CT has an activity log for all transactions and Lazar obviously has account access. He saw the purchase and consumption / sale activity. Switch to classic mode for a wine you've purchased and consumed, you'll see "transactions" at the very bottom of the page.

Only 1,349 more bottles to go...

These guys deserve each other.
Funny thing: I actually used that feature this past weekend to reverse-engineer when I consumed a particular bottle many months ago. I looked to see when I changed the bottle's location, knowing that was the date on which I retrieved it from off site, and then was able to pin down the date of a particular event at which I know the bottle was consumed. It is a wonderful little feature. Do you know if that feature exists in the current version of cellartracker? It is possible that Domaine was granted Cellar access on cellartracker. It is also possible that cellartracker was not at all involved, and that Domaine had been made responsible, and had accepted responsibility, for maintaining the accuracy of this particular client's inventory, and failed to do so, or at least so they claim.
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#1020 Post by Eric LeVine » April 18th, 2018, 9:58 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:Funny thing: I actually used that feature this past weekend to reverse-engineer when I consumed a particular bottle many months ago. I looked to see when I changed the bottle's location, knowing that was the date on which I retrieved it from off site, and then was able to pin down the date of a particular event at which I know the bottle was consumed. It is a wonderful little feature. Do you know if that feature exists in the current version of cellartracker?
In the modern site, at the bottom of the wine page, you will see text that says: "Report a problem with this page. See my transactions." The latter link is what you are looking for.
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#1021 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 18th, 2018, 10:09 am

Cool. Thanks Eric. I think Brig and I both just learned something. :-)
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#1022 Post by Steve Gautier » April 18th, 2018, 11:35 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:Cool. Thanks Eric. I think Brig and I both just learned something. :-)
So did I. [thankyou.gif]
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#1023 Post by John Danza » April 18th, 2018, 11:39 am

Nick Ryan wrote:
ericleehall wrote:Sorry if this was already posted:

One side claims $2 million in wine went missing. The other says, that didn't happen.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2018/04 ... -court?h=1
Curious. Given the apparent specificity of Lazar's responses as to the fate of many of the wines, upon initial reading it's hard not to feel somewhat skeptical of their claim. But then there's the fact that the Buergers' insurance company already paid them in full for the alleged missing wine. Knowing how loathe insurance companies are to hand out any money that they could weasel out of paying makes you wonder what the heck is really going on.
Yes, something doesn't pass the smell test for me. Having been in the insurance industry most of my life, insurance companies that insure consumable items are going to do a particularly thorough job of making sure there's actually a covered loss before cutting a check. I have a hard time imagining that the company stroked a $2M check without making damn sure the bottles weren't drunk.

If Lazar is correct (always a big risk), then you could add insurance fraud to Buergers' troubles. It should be really interesting to see how this court case plays out.
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#1024 Post by RichardFlack » April 18th, 2018, 11:41 am

Who has the movie rights? [popcorn.gif]

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#1025 Post by brigcampbell » April 18th, 2018, 11:41 am

Eric LeVine wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:Funny thing: I actually used that feature this past weekend to reverse-engineer when I consumed a particular bottle many months ago. I looked to see when I changed the bottle's location, knowing that was the date on which I retrieved it from off site, and then was able to pin down the date of a particular event at which I know the bottle was consumed. It is a wonderful little feature. Do you know if that feature exists in the current version of cellartracker?
In the modern site, at the bottom of the wine page, you will see text that says: "Report a problem with this page. See my transactions." The latter link is what you are looking for.
Not when you're in mobile browser mode. neener
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MARC LAZAR OF DOMAINE WINE STORAGE AND CELLAR ADVISORS CHARGED WITH TWO FELONY COUNTS

#1026 Post by james l moleberg » April 18th, 2018, 11:47 am

What's interesting is that none of the bottles specified by Lazar, outside of maybe the 82 Bollinger VV are anywhere near the $1400 average bottle price, but that is what was paid out on a per bottle average by the insurance company for the lot of missing wine.

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#1027 Post by Victor Hong » April 18th, 2018, 11:58 am

RichardFlack wrote:Who has the movie rights? [popcorn.gif]
The trailer might not be suitable for family viewing.
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#1028 Post by Eric LeVine » April 18th, 2018, 12:05 pm

brigcampbell wrote:
Eric LeVine wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:Funny thing: I actually used that feature this past weekend to reverse-engineer when I consumed a particular bottle many months ago. I looked to see when I changed the bottle's location, knowing that was the date on which I retrieved it from off site, and then was able to pin down the date of a particular event at which I know the bottle was consumed. It is a wonderful little feature. Do you know if that feature exists in the current version of cellartracker?
In the modern site, at the bottom of the wine page, you will see text that says: "Report a problem with this page. See my transactions." The latter link is what you are looking for.
Not when you're in mobile browser mode. neener
CLICK on VIEW FULL WEBSITE.

Where I said "modern site" I should have said "modern desktop site". It is not on our current todo list to add this to mobile. It is pretty marginal data.
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#1029 Post by Tim Heaton » November 12th, 2018, 8:20 am

Two years (and 21 pages) ago, this story 'broke'. Has anything happened, or is Mr. Lazar free to run his successful businesses?
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#1030 Post by Corey N. » November 12th, 2018, 8:24 am

Tim Heaton wrote:
November 12th, 2018, 8:20 am
Two years (and 21 pages) ago, this story 'broke'. Has anything happened, or is Mr. Lazar free to run his successful businesses?
I passed the Domaine in Chicago this weekend and I wondered the same thing.
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#1031 Post by David Glasser » November 12th, 2018, 11:02 am

Domaine DC is still in business.

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#1032 Post by Don Cornwell » November 12th, 2018, 12:40 pm

Yes, Mr. Lazar is still in business. My understanding is that the investigations continue.
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