I’ve had some disappointment in how my dry Chidaines have aged. Nothing like what I’ve experienced with Huet. Tonight I had a 2010 Les Bournais which seems flat despite plenty of acid and seems on the verge of falling off the table.
Can you give a few examples of what wines at what age disappointed you how?
I don’t’ have enough experience with aged chidaine to speak broadly to this issue, but i had the 10 bournais a few months ago and was similarly unimpressed. Flat textured on the palate and had a bland melon-ish flavor i didnt really enjoy.
I’ve only had a couple of older Chidaines (that I enjoyed) and have maybe a dozen in cellar. But I would say with CB in general 4-8 years after vintage is prime time for a dumb stage. I’m usually a drink on release or hold 10+ guy.
Levi–very similar feel to my bottle. But didn’t truly seem oxidized, and had pretty good acid.
Dale–right I thought of that, and perhaps you are right. I was looking for confirmation from those with experience. problem with waiting longer is that several of my 2008’s premoxed. I don’t have anything older. Also the Huet’s of the same ages, while alittle shut down, are showing much much better. I’m referring here of dry wines only. (I do have a couple of bottles of clos Habert, but haven’t tried them since release. Not much of a demi-sec guy).
I have a half case of the 2008 Bournais cellared. Checked in on one about 6 months ago and it was quite delicious - full of tension and verve with just a few gently rounded edges indicating its evolution. This wine was quite wound up on release and to me was not very pleasurable – gorgeous nose but tight on the palate. It’s unfurling beautifully now. I will keep my fingers crossed that none of my remaining bottles go the premox route…but at the moment, glad to have these tucked away.
Thanks. I guess I’ll just be patient and see what happens.
Stopped buying them a long time ago when the 2002s pox’ed. I believe others on wine disorder had similar findings many years ago.
-mark
I opened a very nice 2008 Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Tuffeaux in June. Here’s my TN:
Demi-sec sweetness, just gorgeous. Still has baby fat after 8 years, with no sign of age or oxidative notes. Sweet citrus and white fruit, great acidic cut. Best $23 wine around.
In the last year, I have had the following wines. Aged? I guess it’s how we define it. I have not found any issues with any of my older bottles.
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2008 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Clos Habert - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire (10/9/2016)
5 years in between bottles. Having 2 left, I took one nice and chilled to dinner. Paired with a kale salad, empanadas and wood fired edamame with sea salt and olive oil. Paired well with all of these. When cool, this tasted of fresh cut pineapple and then as it warmed, the lime zest, nectarine and peach came through, with mineral in the finish. damn, this was good. Color was fine, the level of demi was well managed by the acidity that remains and this just drank complete. Have another glass left for today to be amused by the Presidential debate. -
2008 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Tuffeaux - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire (1/29/2016)
Four years since my last bottle. Started off a little tropical in tone, with some viscosity. Peach and honey, yet solid acidity to cut the demi-edges. The balance on this was great, the table seemed to really enjoy it. I have one bottle left, I don’t see any rush to open the last one. -
2010 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Tuffeaux - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire (12/16/2015)
Opened this to, gulp, let my wife use for cooking. Heresy, I know. It was only a glass but it did make a great sauce. As to the wine, 2 days later I poured a glass to drink! This drinks like the bottle we had in 2014, with a good zing of acid against pear, yellow Apple, honey and nectarine skin. The acidity is the key here, as it really jazzes up the fruit with a long finish. No rush on these, plenty of refreshing acidity here.
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Agreed - i dont think mine was oxidized or flabby either. Just mediocre and a little weird.
As Frank says, it depends on how you define age. His bottles would normally be considered young for Chenin blanc. That said, you have to break Chidaine’s wines into two categories, Montlouis and Vouvray. In my experience, Montlouis just doesn’t age as long/well as Vouvray and, to my tastes, I’ve been disappointed with how Chidaine’s Montlouis show after say 10-12+. I tend to see them as shorter term drinkers.
I believe he took over Poniatowski’s vineyard’s in Vouvray in '02 and while I generally prefer the demi-sec/sec-tendre style to his secs, I will say that they, too, show better younger than older, imo.
All that said, I think folks need to remember that Chenin naturally shows an oxidative tendency and that too many people are attributing premox to actual supply chain/storage issues. Additionally, say in Savennieres, some producers tend to make their wine in an oxidative style. The only full blown premox issue I’ve encountered, or realistically heard/seen discussed, is '02 Huet, from demi-sec level and drier, including the Petillant bottlings. A tiny bit with Huet’s Sec/Demi-Sec '95s and '96s, but, more often than not, they tend to freshen up with air.
Additionally, I think we need to start realizing that we’re living in a different era. Global warming is having an impact on these wines, as is a change in winemaking style, with regard to ripeness, pressing and, perhaps most importantly, sulfur levels. The old rules for aging Chenin may need revising.
Thanks, Brad. That’s kind of what I was looking for for perspective. My own decision so far has been to drink the Chidaine secs a little younger and let the Huet secs run.
BTW, finished the rest of the bottle of the 2010 Les Bournais tonight on the second night, and it has filled out fairly nicely and a lot of the flatness has improved. perhaps a bit of a false alarm.
A 2010 Clos Habert had plenty of fresh acidity to balance the fruit last month, seemed like it could easily last a few more years.