Petite Sirah is pretty boring

[Ken Strauss]

Right? Man I'd love a glass.

Big time!! Would love to taste this one.

Don't think I've ever even seen a note on it. Has anyone ever tried it??

Just looked it up.
Parker The 2012 Petite Sirah should be the greatest PS to ever come out of California(or the world). Made from 94% PS 6% Viognier and aged in 80% old hogsheads and 20% new French oak. It is only bottled in magnum and will be sold along with the new Sine Qua Non label art book. 97-100 August 2014

[S. Stevenson]

Don't think I've ever even seen a note on it. Has anyone ever tried it??

Just looked it up.
Parker The 2012 Petite Sirah should be the greatest PS to ever come out of California(or the world). Made from 94% PS 6% Viognier and aged in 80% old hogsheads and 20% new French oak. It is only bottled in magnum and will be sold along with the new Sine Qua Non label art book. 97-100 August 2014

More from that review:
"A massive, full-bodied effort that offers incredible depth and richness without ever seeming heavy or cumbersome, it offers up blockbuster-styled aromas and flavors of blackberry, cassis, crushed rocks, beef blood and licorice. It should age for decades."

[bretrooks]

I don't drink that much PS these days, and particularly not the more-polished styles you sometimes run across. That said, I've appreciated multiple bottles of Field Stone's versions over time, especially their reserves (mostly through my mother-in-law, who worked in their tasting room some years ago).

They're still big and sometimes need air to blow off a little reduction, but I find them to be a bit spicier/funkier and more interesting than most. They also seem to age forever, slowly mellowing and integrating over time but really not changing much. Over the last 5-6 years, I've had the 1978, 1984, 1991, 1997, and a couple of younger ones, and the age difference is much slighter than I'd expect. My experience is that they don't show much of their complexity until about year five, and waiting until closer to year 10 is better.

Most-recently:

2006 Field Stone Petite Sirah Staten Family Reserve - USA, California, Sonoma County, Alexander Valley (10/17/2014)
Not decanted, consumed over 2+ hours. A little funky on the nose at first, this came together very nicely over time, and the last of the bottle was the best. Almost black at the core, with a deep ruby/garnet rim. My note from 2010 still largely holds up - this is full of dense blackberry fruit, black pepper, baking chocolate, and hints of campfire and rubber (although the rubberiness dissipated with air). Subtle but present tannins and good acid for a petite.

Petite sirah isn't generally my favorite varietal, but I'm a fan of Field Stone's version, and this bottle is a good example of why that is. 90-91, and nowhere near being at the end of its life...my experience is that these reserve petites hold up almost indefinitely. (90 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

[Rich Brown]

Don't think I've ever even seen a note on it. Has anyone ever tried it??

Just looked it up.
Parker The 2012 Petite Sirah should be the greatest PS to ever come out of California(or the world). Made from 94% PS 6% Viognier and aged in 80% old hogsheads and 20% new French oak. It is only bottled in magnum and will be sold along with the new Sine Qua Non label art book. 97-100 August 2014

More from that review:
"A massive, full-bodied effort that offers incredible depth and richness without ever seeming heavy or cumbersome, it offers up blockbuster-styled aromas and flavors of blackberry, cassis, crushed rocks, beef blood and licorice. It should age for decades."

Thanks! Yep, I have seen that Parker review before actually, but was wondering if any of us "normal folks" here on the board have had a taste. Would love to hear some candid feedback.

[Jason Oliver]

Mending wall's petite has already been mentioned. That was inky, interesting, and a great value.

Prospect 772 from sierra foothills makes a petite/syrah blend called black tie charlie that is extremely good and only goes for 20 something.

[Scott Brunson]

I am willing to push my chips into the middle betting Once & Future PS will be anything but boring.

Smart money Doc.
I used to like the Hayfork PS but I don't think they make it any more.

[Glenn L e v i n e]

Uncorked the 2013 Carlisle Sonoma County just now in prep for tomorrow night, got to tell you it smells great already. Will have next to a modern benchmark: Scholium Project 2004 Babylon.

Flannery Jorge Steak too.

Science!

[Rich Brown]

Uncorked the 2013 Carlisle Sonoma County just now in prep for tomorrow night, got to tell you it smells great already. Will have next to a modern benchmark: Scholium Project 2004 Babylon.

Flannery Jorge Steak too.

Science!

Now THAT.....sounds like a helluva night!!

Good stuff buddy - enjoy!!

[M Officer]

Uncorked the 2013 Carlisle Sonoma County just now in prep for tomorrow night, got to tell you it smells great already. Will have next to a modern benchmark: Scholium Project 2004 Babylon.

Flannery Jorge Steak too.

Sounds delicious Glenn. Too bad Petite Sirah has no tannin and acid to complement that wonderful steak.

[David K o l i n]

Uncorked the 2013 Carlisle Sonoma County just now in prep for tomorrow night, got to tell you it smells great already. Will have next to a modern benchmark: Scholium Project 2004 Babylon.

Flannery Jorge Steak too.

Sounds delicious Glenn. Too bad Petite Sirah has no tannin and acid to complement that wonderful steak.

Nice

[Bill Tex Landreth]

Uncorked the 2013 Carlisle Sonoma County just now in prep for tomorrow night, got to tell you it smells great already. Will have next to a modern benchmark: Scholium Project 2004 Babylon.

Flannery Jorge Steak too.

Sounds delicious Glenn. Too bad Petite Sirah has no tannin and acid to complement that wonderful steak.

Nice

[Glenn L e v i n e]

That is unfortunate about the tannin and acid. Oh well, it's for science after all!

[Rich Brown]

Uncorked the 2013 Carlisle Sonoma County just now in prep for tomorrow night, got to tell you it smells great already. Will have next to a modern benchmark: Scholium Project 2004 Babylon.

Flannery Jorge Steak too.

Sounds delicious Glenn. Too bad Petite Sirah has no tannin and acid to complement that wonderful steak.

Literally laughed out loud on that one Mike.

Well played sir. Well played.

[Paul H Galli]

A lot of PS can be boring and unbalanced, but the 1971 Ridge York Creek PS is the greatest CA wine I've ever had...

TTT

[Bill Tex Landreth]

A lot of PS can be boring and unbalanced, but the 1971 Ridge York Creek PS is the greatest CA wine I've ever had...

TTT

Just wait until you wrap your lips around Faith Winery's first release. Richard Walker WILL NOT FAIL!

[Alan Eden]

There are several 75 York Creeks on winebid, are they worth $100 ?

[Brady Daniels]

There are several 75 York Creeks on winebid, are they worth $100 ?

So this man was beating his head against the wall. When asked why, he replied, "Because if feels so good when I stop."

I know of no cases of wines gaining tannins and acidity over forty years.

If you already know you don't like pets, I'd say another bottle ain't worth $100 to you. Leave it for some other poor sap.

[Barry IncaRoads Sheck]

There are several 75 York Creeks on winebid, are they worth $100 ?

So this man was beating his head against the wall. When asked why, he replied, "Because if feels so good when I stop."

*golf clap*

[A. So]

A broken clock is still right twice a day

[Arv R]

d

[Arv R]

d

[Arv R]

I am amazed at the army of loyal Petite Sirah lovers who have crawled out of the woodwork in its defense.

I have always enjoyed PS, even though most of my experiences have been with younger bottles. I have had PS wines from all over California, as well as a couple from the warmer Australian areas. I enjoyed most of what I have tasted.

One thing that is not being stressed as heavily as I would've anticipated is the fact that many inexpensive varietal or PS-heavy bottlings are great QPR selections. JNBrown and Nate Simon have chimed in on some values.

The recent vintages from Bogle have been rather impressive. In the past, Concannon, McMannis, and other "Grocery Store" labels have delivered the goods for ~$10/btl.

I had to nip into an out of town grocery store to pick up some wine, and because its a resort area, its all overpriced off vintage stuff for the 'fine wine' section. So I retreated to the domestic shelves, and picked up a reliable 2016 Bogle Petit Sirah for $14 (!). I haven't had this in a few years but I figured this would be a harmless yet rugged selection. Still as dark as prior vintages, chewy texture, and brambly/berry palate flavors. It reminds me of gutsy Spanish wines made from Monastrell in a way. 14.5% abv, and you feel it quickly. It looks like it could stain a porcelain sink too.

Also: We picked up an anonymous white too, but that sucked.

[Anton D]

I like Retro Cellars' petite sirah a great deal and I invite Alan to try to rebut my statement.

[Andrew Demaree]

Agreed. Retro makes terrific PS and the pricing is good, as well.

[Jeff_M.]

I like Retro Cellars' petite sirah a great deal and I invite Alan to try to rebut my statement.

FYI - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=162324

[Josh Grossman]

Opened a 2009 Jaffurs Petite Sirah Thompson Vineyard last night that was singing.

[Anton D]

I like Retro Cellars' petite sirah a great deal and I invite Alan to try to rebut my statement.

FYI - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=162324

It was meant as my own little tribute to him.

Actually, I should have said that I 'challenge' Alan to rebut me.

Hmmm, maybe 'defy' Alan to rebut me.

I think he'd like that.

[Gabe Berk]

I randomly had a 1979 Freemark Abbey York Creek PS and was amazed it still had vigor and a lot of vibrant fruit left. Very good wine.

I always buy the Rattlesnake, Hayne and Pesenti Petite Syrah from Turley as they are IMHO the best California Petite Syrah out there. If opening them young, they will blow your taste buds away with fruit, body and tannin. Takes about 5-10 years for them to settle down and become more harmonious and can age for 40+ years. Fun wines.

[Wes Barton]

Any winemakers looking at this: There's quite a bit of PS for dirt cheap way up in Manton Valley. Volcanic soil tames the tannin to a reasonable level and brings out tons of floral character.

[Andrew A r n t f i e l d]

+1 on Retro. And of course an even bigger vote for Dunn. Those ‘90s Dunn PS are stunning.

[S. Rash]

4 out of my top 10 all time wines have been Petite Sirah!

1999 Ridge York Mountain PS
2000 Pride Mountain PS
2000 Teldeschi PS
2006 Carver Sutro Palisades Vineyard PS

All drunk this past year, giving them all 13-20 years of age! Pets need that age to soften out the tannins. It’s hard waiting for them to age, but then I remember how they drank with that age.

[Peter Valiquette]

I recently opened a 2014 Ridge York Creek Petite Sirah...it wasn't lacking in tannins or acid.

[Leonard Maran]

It's the common grape, Duriff in France. Sure, they age a long time, but IMO, they do not evolve much. I also do not like the sometimes, chalky mouthfeel.

[Wes Barton]

It's the common grape, Duriff in France. Sure, they age a long time, but IMO, they do not evolve much. I also do not like the sometimes, chalky mouthfeel.

Try one from Theopolis Vyd. Theopolis, Highlawn and Halcon are all excellent. Think Syrah structure, savory aromatics, much more open, but still exhibiting PS fruit and personality. A couple people brought older Highlawns ('13 & '14) as brown bag wines last harvest and they've definitely evolved. (Disclaimer: I've bottled all three. Theopolis is made by Ed Kurtzman, Halcon was made by Scott Shapley, Highlawn is Philip Cuadra, who interned at Scholium Project, then at Roar with Ed and Scott.)

I'm a fan of the old Ridges with a lot of maturity, but their recent ones are not tannic beasts, and are quite enjoyable on release.

I've had plenty of great ones over the years. Comes down to site and winemaking. Site can provide less tannic grapes. On the winemaking side there are smart and dumb ways to deal with the tannins. I've had Tannat, Sagrantino, Aglianico, Nebbiolo, etc. with too much tannin, that will never resolve. I've had examples done rather stupidly, where something is lost dealing with the tannins, and I've had stunning ones with just the right amount of tannin to frame impressive varietal and site expression.

[Howard Cooper]

I am not a huge fan of most Petite Sirah, although I have had a couple of Ridge ones over the years with age on them that have been very good.

Where I think PS is very valuable, however, is in a blend with Zin and maybe one or two other grapes. A lot of old vine Zins where the vineyard was planted as a field blend have some PS in it. I believe that this includes Ridge Geyserville and Lytton Springs - by far my two favorite Zins. My sense is that the addition of some PS in these wines adds to the overall richness, complexity and agability of the wines. So, I think of PS as an important grape even if I don't generally love wines made solely from it.

[John Danza]

I'm glad to see so many people that don't like PS. More for the rest of us without upward price pressure.

[Carlton McCrindle]

Vincent Arroyo introduced me to PS and I have been enjoying it ever since.

[markjchambers]

I've been getting Turley Petits since 1994. I think they are up and down, but generally good with 15-20 years of bottle age. 1999-2001 was a good run for Hayne. Parker always said they would last 50 years.
Carlisle Palisades is a good bottle at good price point. 12 was very good and 16 is supposed to be great.
Another under appreciated bottle is Jaffurs Thompson. I bought the 2013 from them direct for $25. Good QPR.

[D. HEIN]

Bought two cases each of the Rockland, 1992 and 1993 PSs, reviewed below by Robert Parker. Began drinking these wines last year, and, for my wife’s and my taste, thoroughly enjoyable. I suspect these PSs’ have another 10+ years of drinkability. The only issue with this grape, is the time required to reach excellent drinking maturity. Admittedly, I prefer to drink very mature wine. Who’s willing, to purchase and wait 26 years, to drink a wine? Can be very expensive!

In any event, this was the beginning wine era for the great Mark Aubert!

ROCKLAND

Petite Sirah
150 cases produced
Napa, California

1993-Readers may remember my ecstatic reviews of Rockland's 1992 Petite Sirah. The 1993 is another dazzling example of this under estimated varietal. An impressively saturated, dense purple color is followed by a thick, juicy, full bodied wine with great fruit and intensity, good spice, superb focus, and a sweet, tannic, heady finish. This is a classic Petite Sirah. While the wine is approachable, it ideally needs another 3 to 5 years of cellaring. This large scaled, inky colored monster will last for 20+ years. Drink: 2013 to 2016+. Last tasted, 2/96. Rating, 93.

1992-The 1992 Petite Sirah is from the family owned vineyard, of Peter Michael Winery's highly talented wine maker, Mark Aubert. Made from 45 year old vines situated outside Calistoga, near Chateau Montelena, the wine was aged for 24 months in 25% new oak casks and bottled unfiltered. It is a tremendously impressive Petite Sirah, with more Syrah characteristics than Petite Sirah. The color is an opaque purple. Although initially closed, the nose opens to reveal aromas of smoke, black currants, and black raspberries. Full bodied, rich and beautifully balanced, with unobtrusive, but noticeable tannin, as well as adequate acidity and a sensational finish, the wine coats the mouth with a viscous feel. While accessible, this superb effort should hit its peak in 3 to 4 years and last for two decades. Drink: 2000 to 2020+. Last tasted, 4/95. Rating, 92.

Indeed, an admirer of the great Petit Sirahs!

[GregP]

It's the common grape, Duriff in France. Sure, they age a long time, but IMO, they do not evolve much. I also do not like the sometimes, chalky mouthfeel.

Leonard, agree and also disagree. Pets, when grown in right conditions, can be great. And this, to me, means the Calistoga to St. Helena axis, with dry, even and long heat. That chalky mouthfeel usually comes from way too much oak dialed in on top of over extraction (pump overs for hours), and I have seen some use 200% new oak on a varietal that usually has plenty of its own tannic structure "built in" from the get go. Some of the best fruit comes out of Calistoga area and at this point some of it reaches into Napa Cab territory price wise, for a reason. $7K per ton and up, when and IF you can get it.

Even in Calistoga/St. Helena its the valley floor that usually delivers better Pets, some mountain grown fruit can be too tannic. Outside of Calistoga/St. Helena some Lodi vineyards can be great (though most kill it with too much new oak, IMO, common theme with Pets), and then Geyserville area being an "extension" of sorts to Calistoga climate. Mendo fruit, for the most part, ripens at a very different curve and even when ripened to same Brix (mid 15s?) does not provide for same lush and rich palate fruit in Calistoga does. And, unlike Calistoga area fruit, where it can stand on its own with no new oak, Mendo Pets usually demand some to fill out the mid palate.

You should try Switchback Ridge, Madrigal, some Turleys as a reference point. Big, but usually deliver with some age on them. Grill up some meat and Pets will be your friend, to me more so than Cab.

Look up a recent Pets discussion, plenty of notes there, we did some of them blind.

[D@vid Bu3ker]

Two of the best wines I have ever had were served double blind, side by side in 2004.

1971 Ridge York Creek Petite Sirah
1974 Ridge York Creek Petite Sirah

These were not just great PS, they were great wines.

[MitchTallan]

I would respond but what's the use? What Tom Hill says.

[Hank Victor]

1993 Turley Hayne PS was drinking great last December. Blew me away.

[David Glasser]

I am not a huge fan of most Petite Sirah, although I have had a couple of Ridge ones over the years with age on them that have been very good.

Where I think PS is very valuable, however, is in a blend with Zin and maybe one or two other grapes. A lot of old vine Zins where the vineyard was planted as a field blend have some PS in it. I believe that this includes Ridge Geyserville and Lytton Springs - by far my two favorite Zins. My sense is that the addition of some PS in these wines adds to the overall richness, complexity and agability of the wines. So, I think of PS as an important grape even if I don't generally love wines made solely from it.

+1 to all of this, though a bottle of 1974 Ridge York Creek PS at about 25 years of age is on my list of all time memorable greats. I never had the pleasure of drinking a 1971.

[G. Bienstock]

With regards to recent vintages, this Illuminare from Eldorado County, CA is my favorite. A 2 vineyard blend for complexity.

http://www.illuminarewinery.com/menu-it ... ite-sirah/