TN: Tempier, Bandol, rose, 2012 (& Tavel discussion)

Extremely light copper-tinged water in color. Generic nose of alcohol and grapes, which at least transforms in the glass to freeze-dried strawberries, flaxseed, canola oil, and chalk. Hasn’t morphed into anything special, and is worse for the years than a previous bottle. Meh, especially at the price charged. B/B+

May or may not make a difference, depending on your tastes, but that Rose is always best consumed as young as possible. 2012 was actually an exceptional vintage, with tons of floral/watermelon fruit, but that always dissipates after 6-12 months. I never hold on to these long.

I was always under the belief that these continued to develop for a couple of years post bottling. Surprised to hear that some feel they are best consumed that quickly.

Interested to hear other opinions on this . . .

Well, that was my impression as well, and I tend to like aged rose (the ones that can take it. Not talking about simple summer quaffers).

I try to stay away from always and never…especially in Burgundy as there are exceptions to every rule. If that rose were made via direct press(which I think likely) then it would probably better in it’s youth. Now the roses made via saignee(Tavel) should age better and tend to get more interesting. At least this has been my experience

Heath, just relating my own experience and preference with Tempier Rose, can’t necessarily translate that to other producers. I’ve tried hanging on to bottles for a year or two, in number of vintages, and not once have I ever preferred the wine older vs younger. 2007, in particular, was a vintage where in its youth the Tempier was incredible, with all sorts of wild floral and melon fireworks on the both the nose and palate. One of the best wines I’ve had, not just Rose. I kept a couple bottles until the next summer, but by then the wine had lost all of those fireworks and flavors, and become more of the “standard” vintage Tempier Rose. Since then I always buy what I plan to drink that year, and make sure to finish it before the end of its release year.

My general experience with Tempier rose has been underwhelming especially considering the price and the availability of wonderful alternatives

The latest Kermit Lynch flyer suggests putting a couple of bottles away and I was skeptical.

I recently asked what to expect with the 2011 Garrus. Anyone have any idea?

I drink up Tempier within 2 years of the vintage. It always shows very well when I do that.

Claims that it ages have always struck me as ridiculous.

Exactly, and I’ve learned my lesson, which makes me appreciate the age-worthy roses of Clos Cibonne (esp. the ‘vignettes’ cru) all the more and at less tariff than Tempier too.

I tend to like my rosé fresh and lively, and almost always drink them within a year of release. I have found, however, that Tempier improves and gains some additional complexity the year after release. (I’ve never had one older than that) Different strokes.

There are some other rosés I occasionally enjoy with an additional year of age. A couple of years ago Costco had some Bargemone from the previous vintage. It was a great buy, and was very good.

Then of course there are Heredia’s amazing Tondonia rosés, which are an entirely different animal. They’re fascinating and profound.

I love Tempier Rose and generally buy some each year. I would also drink it in the first year or two. In reference to Heath’s comment, it is whole cluster pressed from early picked fruit and that’s responsible for the fresh watermelon and floral character that Alan mentioned.

I also love the Clos Cibonne Vignettes (have had a glass the past two evenings) and the Tondonia roses. Different style of rose, love them both.

-Al

Alan - my experiences are different here. In 2012, I had a 2002 Tempier Rose and just loved it. The age seemed to give the wine more of an earthy tone, with more pungent floral notes and, overall, less fruit. To me, it was more complex and enjoyable than anything I’ve had from them on release. Since then, I’ve developed the habit of buying 2 bottles per vintage - one to drink on release and the other to age for 5+ years.

That’s interesting, Matt. I don’t think I’ve ever had one with 10 years of age on it, only 2-4 years. Might try hanging on to a couple bottles for longer to check it out. But they are so delicious when young, surpassing all other Rose producers that I’ve tried, that I don’t mind paying the higher tariff, and I just drink them young.

Tempier.jpg
We were in Bandol this Feb and had the chance to taste through a bunch of rosés back to '83 (Back to '85 with Tempier). Every producer we visited mentioned that they felt forced (by market demands) to release their rosés too young. To them, even 1-2 years made a huge difference in the qualities the wines showed. With hitting the older vintages, it was pretty incredible to see that even with their loss of rosé-type freshness, most of the wines picked up depth, weight, and serious complexity. An '83 Terrebrune was absolutely ridiculous / surreal.

We had dinner at Gros 'Noré with Alain Pascal and Daniel Ravier. A number of great bottles were opened (rosé and reds). For most of us, the wines of the night for were an '87 Tempier Cabassaou and a '99 Tempier Rosé. The '99 was really compelling- something you almost didn’t want to drink- but just wanted to go back to and smell all night.

All that being said, I can see the older rosés not being someone’s fav. Without tasting like orange wines, they also sit in a wine space all their own

Hardy,

Curious to hear what was ‘distinctive’ about these older bottlings? What was it about their aromatics that was compelling? And did they still retain some ‘freshness’ or was the enjoyment in the fact that these were ‘aged’?

I have also heard that pressure from over here is causing producers in Bandol to bottle and release their Roses earlier than they’d prefer. I’ve seen 2015 Ott and Tempier on the shelves for the past few weeks - normally I would not see current vintage until late summer/early Fall IIRC.

And from my perspective, these wines need probably a year in bottle to really begin to shine, with their lives extended for at least another few . . .

Cheers.

what they lose in freshness they gain in complexity. I like them both young and older. Hardy, I haven’t tried a bottle with 17 years of bottle age but would love to.

The fruits went into more fruit & cream flavors vs fresh fruits. A lot of earthy, savory, and soil flavors. I’ll have to double-check, but I think Tempier’s last year of going through malo was 99 and I think Terrebrune stopped malo somewhere around there, too.

The international demand is crazy and driving the release earlier and earlier. It is also affecting planting / production. With the fast and relative high $ of Bandol rosé a lot of producers are making more and more rosé and less reds :frowning: I’d have to double-check my notes, but I think Daniel said that over 50% of Bandol production is now rosé.

I’m curious - how would these wines no longer going through malo impact ageability? Or would it?