TNs: The worst tasting we've done in years (CA Pinots)

The blind group got together to try 8 CA Pinots. This night was notable to me for two reasons. First, it’s the worst one of these tastings I can remember. The wines were generally mediocre or worse, and atrocious QPR, and I think that was more or less group consensus. Second, I was able to guess all of these wines blind, and had pretty good confidence in all my guesses. I’ve never tasted wines where the producer signature was more obvious.

Anyways, the wines:

Group’s 8th, my T3rd - I thought this was mediocre but fine; no obvious stem, red fruit, some structure/tannins and depth, something savory. Not great but not aggressively bad. 87 points for me. For many in this group, this had some sort of offensive chemical smell which I couldn’t pick up even after it was pointed out, but those who smelled it recoiled from this. It’s the Briceland Vineyards Rhonda’s Vineyard, Humbolt County 2013.

Group’s 7th, my 6th - Oh lord, this is nasty. Aggressively stemmy nose, really weird artificial ripe sweet fruit with high acidity. Like biting into a raisin soaked in vinegar. 81 points. This tastes just like other bottles of Kutch I’ve tried, and indeed, it’s the Kutch Sonoma Coast 2013.

Group’s 6th, my 4th - Plenty of stem here, but the stem is a touch riper than some of the other bottles and not as green and over the top. This has some nice red fruit, particularly in the mouth, but a streak of broccoli pyrazine gives this away as SCM. Reminds me of a less successful 2011 Burgundy. 84 points, and it’s the Arnot-Roberts Peter Martin Ray Vineyard, SCM 2013.

Group’s 5th, my T3rd - I’ve had this before, so I instantly recognize it. But it’s a really weak example - like someone turned down the intensity / concentration down halfway. Light red fruit, just a touch of stem but not out of balance, touch of oak, good acid. This is tasty but where’s the beef? 87 points. Worst bottle of this I’ve ever had - Littorai Savoy Vineyard Anderson Valley 2013. This was my bottle, ordered direct from Littorai and put into temp controlled storage. :*(**

Group’s T3rd, my 8th - Overripe, overstemmed, over the top. Low acid, high alcohol. A sweet dark juicy mess of a wine. Yuck! I would pour this down the drain if I opened at home. This is for people who like purple drank Napa cab. 80 points. It must be the bottle that lists its ABV at more than 1% higher than any of the others - the Joseph Phelps Freestone Vineyards Sonoma Coast 2012.

Group’s T3rd, my 5th - Lots of whole cluster, candied red fruit, probably the most candied of all the wines, reminds me uncannily of watermelon jolly rancher. It’s nice and savory on the finish but the candied fruit and stem is tough to get past - also, a touch short / light. How does a wine that seems like it was picked so early have such a candied fruit profile? Weird wine. 82 points. Copain Les Voisins, Anderson Valley, 2011.

Group’s 2nd, my 7th - This screams that characteristic overripe dark fruit and really green stems, which means it must be the Rhys. And it is. The acid is nice and this is much longer and more concentrated than, for example, the Copain or Kutch, so I kind of get why some at the table like it, but it just tastes like plum and STRONG green bean to me. Not my thing, hard to even swallow this. 80-81 points. Rhys Alpine Vineyard, SCM 2012.

Group’s 1st, my 1st - Total outlier compared to the rest of the group. Lots of tannin, lots of structure; plum, spice and a touch of VA on the nose. Shut down. But the tannins are fine, if a touch drying, and this actually tastes like what I think Pinot should taste like, with rich but not sweet fruit lurking under the structure. Lots of potential here. Good, but not great. The faint note of Worcestershire sauce is a dead giveaway as to the producer. Poor QPR. 89 points. Clos Saron Home Vineyard, Sierra Foothills 2012.

I appreciate the perspective, even if I disagree totally and quite like several of the wines mentioned. I think I would probably have the same reaction to a blind tasting of Priorat. For those unused to the sweet fruit-and-stemmy nature of a lot of Cali PN, it can be foreign. I am used to it and I like it. YMMV.

What a bummer.

So many jokes, so little bandwidth…

What can I say. To my knowledge, Copain doesn’t use stems on its Pinot any more, particularly in 2011, which was a very difficult year.

Interestingly, I had my first Clos Saron just recently, found it quite tasty, but also quite mainstream, something that would appeal to someone without a lot of sophisticated taste.

Stop objectifying. Enjoy it! This appears sad,to me.

Keith Levenberg, for example?

Well…I think that’s kinda his point here. He did not enjoy these wines.

Not sure I’d call it “sad” when someone is giving their honest, objective opinion on a group of wines they tried blind and just genuinely didn’t care for (especially when it sounds like he’s tried many of these wines previously and had similar results)

So even if he doesnt care for CA pinot in general, I for one actually appreciate these notes, as it’s a different read on wines that we typically only hear glowing reviews for on this board.

Every time I have a Copain pinot, it tastes like stems and I can pick it out blind. Every time, someone reminds me that Wells claims he doesn’t use stems. Every time, I raise an eyebrow, because the wines taste distinctively stemmy (though not remotely as stemmy as, say, Rhys or Kutch). I have my doubts about the, um, efficiency of the destemming process at Copain.

Not a great report is it? Interesting that “stemmy” comes up here, not sure I would appreciate a PN like that?

I’m highly stem sensitive, and I find that the new wave CA pinots suffer from endemic green stems. Someone with normal stem tolerance would likely have a much more charitable view of these wines.

The initial producer that inspired the thread on influence of oak vs stem was Copain tripping me up. Blind, I was tasting stem only later to find out there was none.

Lots fireworks here…

opps!!! Sorry David.

In Pinot and Syrah, I can basically blindly ID not just whole cluster / no whole cluster, but ballpark percentage (say, 25%/50%/~100%).

I have no idea what Keith may have said about Saron. Really, this whole thread is stupid. David just likes to rain on parades. I’ve tasted every 2011 Copain Pinot, multiple times, never got any sense of stems, or candied fruit. Maybe David was just having a bad tasting night, in which case the better part of valor would be to just not say anything.

Maybe it’s a root day. [smileyvault-ban.gif]

shrug. Dude just doesn’t like the taste of stem or anything that he associates with stem. That’s how new wave CA pinot is nowadays. I just think it’s impressive to call 8 of 8 on wine you don’t like. Gotta really subject yourself to a lot of wine you don’t enjoy to be able to recognize producer signature so readily.

Alan, it wasn’t like anyone else at the table was crowing over these. The general consensus was that these were appallingly bad QPR, though as you’d expect given my views on stems, I liked less than the group as a whole. But I think everyone thought these were hugely disappointing for the prices.

I really don’t understand why someone would subject themselves to such punishment in the first place…

You’re still an enigma to me. All I can say is I’m glad I’m not as particular as you.

How would you compare the acidity to 2013 Enderle & Moll Liason you adore?

Could your “candied” be synonymous to my “aspartame”? stem inclusion tastes like artificial sweetener - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers


I’ve only recently had the 2009, but couldn’t get past the VA (or perhaps acetaldehyde) on the nose.

Assuming that this blind group has relatively similar tastes, why would you all bring wine you don’t like to a tasting? Some sort of hazing ritual or do you all just honestly dislike each other? When tasting each wine, does everyone try to out Harumph each other?

I’m deeply intrigued by this world of disdainful blind tastings. Blame it on the sociology class I took freshman year in college.

…because he so much enjoys telling us every couple weeks how bad these wines are.