The recent tasting note on Rivers-Marie’s Sonoma Coast bottling and attendant discussion of it being an all-time QPR wine for California pinot got me to thinking:
What are examples of the worst QPR wines in Old and New World?
I’m not talking about well-made wines that are aggressively priced but just don’t quite live up to expectations, e.g. Rousseau’s village Gevery or Krug NV. Nor mass-market wines that have a certain cachet but aren’t worth the extra tariff, e.g. Veuve Clicquot or Silver Oak.
But supposed value-play wines that people on this board might get excited about. These “sleeper” picks still carry mid-level prices and high expectations but often seem to underwhelm.
Examples in Old World might be specific Rossos, Cote du Rhones, Bourgognes or grower Champagnes. In New World it might be a county appellation wine from a well-regarded producer, or an obscure varietal from a hipster AFWE winery.
After trying and trying I am willing to nominate any Ribolla, Refosco, Blaufrankisch, Trousseau, etc. from the “New California” school. It’s one nearly tasteless wine after another.
The category that seems like the King of Lousy QPR is the second labels of first and second growth Bordeaux. Anyone buying Carruades de Lafite 2013 for $160? Le Petit de Mouton Rothschild 2013 for $120?
White Bordeaux seems like really poor QPR in general, though there are exceptions here and there.
As a subregion, Carneros seems like bad QPR to me. I guess it’s more the Q portion of it - I just don’t find very interesting wines from there, yet they command the Napa price tag.
Chave red Hermitage (the white could still be okay if you wanted to splurge)
Most GC Burgundy at this point
The Old Guard Bordeaux (1st, 2nd growths)
Napa Cabs
Brunello Riserva
Gross Gewachs getting up there, but hard to argue the quality
Many “natural” and “bio” wines that are overly thin and acidic and without charm (too many to name)
California pinot noir
Grower Champagne (too trendy right now, everyone wants in on the action)
Raveneau Chablis
The stuff that Fu and J. Holmes drinks
So by reading this list, I’d conclude that all wine is the worst QPR. I think every region has been covered. Just too many generalizations to really be accurate. Things that jump out to me are the GC burgundy and grower Champagne. If I could drink Jouan GC, Agrapart Terroirs or Savart l’accomplie daily, I’d be any extremely happy person and would certainly feel as though I was getting excellent value for my money. Then again, it comes down to where you can source these wines and what you’re paying.
old world, generically: most of the Langhe Nebbiolo and Rosso di Montalcino I’ve tried. I usually come away feeling they did not in fact deliver 70% of what I seek from their big brothers. The Nebbs often seem weird, unappealing, off-kilter; the RdM just underwhelming and too often hot. Better experiences at similar price points with Nebbioli of the Alta Piemonte and Chianti, not that they’re exact replacements.
old world, a specific: Tenuta Olim Bauda Barbera d’Asti Superiore Nizza, 2009 - this is the most recent “meh” tasting note I can find, though I’ve probably had others I didn’t bother to record. $36 for a Barbera d’Asti - very highly touted by Galloni and others - and I’d rather have enjoyed something at half (or less) the price and half (or less) the oak. Browsing past notes, I’ve registered somewhere between “meh” and “yuck” for Barberas from Vajra and Grasso too. OK, so add “$25-40 Barbera aspiring to Seriousness rather than kick-ass in a cheap 'n cheerful supporting role at the table” to my generic categories.
The New World is generally pretty handicapped, to my palate and at the (cheapskate) price range in which I buy, QPR-wise vs. the value obtainable from the Old World. I don’t see myself ever buying another bottle of Cali Cab. Well, by New World I guess I mostly mean California specifically. Even there, I’ll buy a few pinots, chards, and oddballs. Oregon = better QPR, and if I were looking to buy more cab sauv / Bordeaux blends, I’d look toward Chile: have enjoyed the pronounced herbal character of the few I’ve tasted, as well as the values. But I’d generally just as soon drink cab franc from the Loire instead.
Most of the comments above are variations of “haters gotta hate.” I could just as easily say “reds from the Loire Valley” or “Rose from France” because I am not a fan of either.
I would say mid-level Argentinian Malbec in the $25-$40 range.
Yellow Tail
Santa Margerita Pinot Grigio. They have found a way to charge $19.99 for a bottle of water.
Probably very accurate as we can easily get shitfaced by drinking cheap hard alcahol mixed drinks. Or beer. No matter how you slice up a $100 qpr bottle of wine, cost wise, you got screwed.
I thought I remember you posting a rather positive note about the Arnot-Roberts Trousseau? And I myself wouldn’t kick Matthiason’s Ribolla “out of bed,” so to speak.
I hear folk on the Bordeaux second labels, but I’ve really liked the Bahans Haut-Brion,went through a lot of the 2000, though of course it no longer exists (and I don’t buy its substitute, Clarence?); also Forts de Latour, when I find something even mildly affordable, though arguably that its own wine.
Those hipster 8% abv partially-fermented biodynamic organic sans-soufre unracked unfined unfiltered non-vintage science experiments with a dumb SQN-like name but only in French that the NYC crowd can’t stop posting on Instagram. /rant
Putting aside wines I like vs not like (which is how many might approach this question) I would have thought that “price” will be the most egregious driver of poor QPR, given it’s a ratio. IMHO prime candidates would include most big labels, where there are usually wines almost as good but substantially cheaper, particularly:
d’Yquem
Petrus
Montrachet in general (often / usually more than twice the price of Chevalier, let alone Batard etc)
One truism is that the more knowledgeable and experienced you are with a grape or region, the better the QPR gets, and vice versa.
I think most of the time someone says “Burgundy is a ripoff” or “Cali pinot is all overpriced,” that means the person saying it (a) doesn’t have much knowledge and experience with the wine in question and/or (b) just doesn’t like that kind of wine. But people who love those wines and have a lot of experience with them know lots of places to look for terrific wines, good value for the dollar at different price points, etc.
Think of it like music - someone might say “country music all sucks,” but they might just have heard bits and pieces from the biggest pop hits and stars in the nominal country music field, and not know where to look for the great singers, songwriters, performers, venues etc. out there.
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