Flippy, flippin flipper?

I know that there are many varied opinions on flipping wine. I personally have never done it, but am not opposed to it. But i was on winebid today looking at some wines and noticed something. The first is that those parker 100 wines jumped a lot in the past two days. Not surprised. So there are these wines you buy at $100, $150 or $200 each and winebid is selling them at 2x and 3x release price. Again no surprise.

Then i looked at higher priced wines like Harlan and they are selling for release price plus.

And THEN i looked at Screaming Eagle. Well, the prices are really crazy for a bottle of this wine and that is release price, but the secondary market is up just a bit to a lot depending on vintage and score. This is not what surprised me though. What did was the quantity being flipped for these higher priced wines Im not certain but it seems like they, SE, and Harlan etc have created a flipping atmosphere where their buyers are really no longer their drinkers.

Any thoughts? Is this where wines that are selling for $200 plus eventually go? Ie Schrader

Thoughts?

For those that want to follow a famous wine critic, be prepared to pay much more than the winery thinks it’s worth, and pay the critic for the privilege.

Still seems to be lots of people who don’t trust their own palates and who are happy to pay a critic to tell them what they should like. Or, lots of speculators who believe there are plenty of those trusting people, allowing them to make a quick killing. Or both. I wonder if they want my Sierra Carche

It’s an old story, but one that doesn’t seem to want to die the death it should.

I think i was more in line of wondering, if i was on the list when they were $200 and i drank it, great. Then the price goes up because the winery realizes the flippers are getting $400. The next year the winery increases their price but i dont drink $400 wine. But why drop off the list when i know i can flip it for a small profit. In fact i can flip 3/4 of that wine and drink the remaining for free. So then they increase their price again to $600 and i dont dont drink $600 wine but i can flip it, so on and so forth.

Point is that price goes up but the people who drink your wine are not on your list because the people who got on the list early have no reason to get off the list

Some people don’t want to deal with flipping the wine, though. There is risk involved (it might not sell, of course). And there is work involved, as well.

Also, some of the lists you mention try to stop flippers from getting their wine. SE does for sure. And there was just a thread about Harlan (or Schrader?) dropping the OP because he flipped the wine on CC, before actually having it, IIRC.

Wineries serialize bottles these days. If you think they don’t buy their own wine on the secondary market to find which customers are flipping them you are mistaken.

This is mostly coming from a selfish perspective as i would rather these people got off the lists so newcombers can get on. I just dont think room is made and the wineries actually benefit from flippers up charging for the wines.

Lettie Teague did an article on this very topic years ago. Some guy flipped his SE hoard and bought a Corvette. I guess you have to get on the merry go round early enough to anticipate demand?

This! Plus, the big risk is that wineries continue to produce the same quality wine. You’re stuck with wines you’ll have to sell at a discount in “off” years (except for the super-cults like SE). The wineries have the same risk when they increase prices. Plenty of demand at $200 with high 90’s+ scores, but a lot of people passing when the 92-93 point scores roll in. They incentivize list members to buy consistently by not going crazy with prices. Or, not.

As a guy who actually drinks the stuff, it really pisses me off that those who get an allocation contribute to driving prices beyond accessibility for those who just want an outstanding glass of wine.

What a bunch of nonsense. There are plenty of outstanding wines made in the world that don’t cost an arm and a leg. It’s the small-production, high points, culty CA mailing list stuff here that yields the $$$. People who pay the secondary market price for Screaming Eagle, for example, have only themselves to blame.

Bruce

2002 Paul Hobbs Beckstoffer To-Kalon: RP 100 points.
2003 Paul Hobbs Beckstoffer To-Kalon: RP 95 points.
Check out the difference in the minimum bid:

ps - the CellarTracker scores are an identical 96 points for each year. Crazy, ain’t it?

If people will pay it, others will happily sell it to them for a profit.

Then get on the list !

Yeah! Burgundy’s cheap, to cite a great exa… wait a minute.

Thanks Kyle - took the words right out of my mouth. Don’t know why people think only CA wines get sold. La Tache should come with its own passport.

I sold 4 of my 2010 schrader for $300 each. The cost was $175.

Sold $1200
Cost 700 + the shipping cost.

A little over a year ago, I saw schrader being sold at $500 per bottle at a retail store. The various online search engines have varied, and in some cases unrealistic prices.

Oh no! Not another wine Ponzi scheme!

Where are Jordan and Tyler when you need them???

You’re not suggesting that DRC/La Tache is representative of all red Burgundy, are you? A little known secret–you can actually walk into decent wine stores all over the US and find red Burgundy for sale. On the shelf. Amazing but true!

Bruce

The same could be said about California Cabernet. Crazy, I know. But the thread was about flipping Cali Cult Cabs. Cult Burgs don’t sit on the store shelves anywhere I ever shop.

Flippers are good for the market. They serve the function of price discovery. Any high end winery with patience and consistency should LOVE flippers because they reveal the clearing price for the wines.

If no one ever ‘flipped’ Screaming Eagle, if not a single bottle was ever sold at auction, the winery would not have the market knowledge to raise prices as they have and would not receive anything near the current mailing list tariff.