What, No Mourvedre Appreciation Delegation?

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Drew Goin
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Awwwww....

#101 Post by Drew Goin » August 26th, 2016, 9:52 pm

TomHill wrote:
Drew Goin wrote:I know, bad acronym.

There's the Carignan Renaissance, ZAP, PS I Love You, and Grenache Symposium.

Aside from the Rhone Rangers, I cannot find a group dedicated to the Mourvedre grape and its wines.

Anyone know of one?
Awwwww, Drew.....how could you possibly forget NEB (Nebbiolo Enthusiasts and Believers)??
Thanks to Emilio Castelli w/ coming up w/ that name. Far above my pay grade for creativity.
http://www.facebook.com/NebNebbioloEnthusiastsBelievers

Tom

I emailed Mr Castelli a while back to address the fact that he pulled out his Mourvedre vines to plant some other variety (perhaps Nebbiolo, or Sangiovese - hopefully not Pinot Noir). He stated that he was experiencing difficulty ripening the fruit. He still had a couple of 2006 Mourvedre bottles, but wouldn't sell them to me. :(

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What, No Mourvedre Appreciation Delegation?

#102 Post by Drew Goin » August 26th, 2016, 9:54 pm

Mr Officer was able to confirm that the Montgomery Vineyard is across the street from Two Acres Vineyard. The plantings of Mourvedre at Montgomery are newer, alas...

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#103 Post by Tony Trumbo » August 27th, 2016, 8:05 am

Ken Zinns wrote:In Paso, the place to go for Mourvèdre is Paix Sur Terre. Ryan Pease is doing a great job with that variety there, which is his specialty. Dirty & Rowdy is the only other California winery I can think of off the top of my head where Mourvèdre is such an important part of their wine line-up, though it's become something of a specialty for a few others such as La Clarine Farm and Tercero. I suppose you could throw Tablas Creek into that mix since their top-of-the-line reds are Mourvèdre-based blends. I'm sure I must be missing a couple of others. Of course many other California wineries produce a Mourvèdre-based blend or a varietal Mourvèdre - some of them excellent - but few make it such a key part of their overall line-up.
Really dig the Paix Sur Terre wines and definitely worth looking at if you enjoy Mourvèdre. Also just had Tablas Creek's 2013 single varietal Mourvèdre at a local tasting this week and it was rocking.

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Drew Goin
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What, No Mourvedre Appreciation Delegation?

#104 Post by Drew Goin » August 27th, 2016, 4:00 pm

I have a small accumulation of American Mourvedre wines building for the eventual "Drew's Mourvedre Blowout Tasting".

Unfortunately, many of the wines deserve more time before popping. I need to get the Paix Sur Terre Mourvedre (as well as a few others) to really feel like I have a good selection gathered.

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#105 Post by Jon Hesford » September 10th, 2016, 9:51 am

Since experimenting with both American and French oak for my first vintage of Mourvedre, I've stuck to American. A wine merchant I know recently did a vintage at Tempier in Bandol. I assumed they would use all French oak. "No" he replied "For the mourvedre, they use 80% American oak". Which surprisingly confirmed my findings on the results.
In the wrong part of France

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#106 Post by Drew Goin » October 15th, 2016, 7:17 pm

It appears that the aforementioned Suncé Winery is offering a special sale on futures, including a few Contra Costa Rhône-style reds (Carignan and Mourvedre), an Alicante Bouschet from the Dempel Vineyard in Mendocino, an old vine Sonoma Valley Zinfandel, etc:
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The Greatness of Mt Veeder Mourvedre

#107 Post by Drew Goin » October 28th, 2016, 3:16 pm

I am trying to conduct a few interviews from wineries and vineyard owners who - in any shape or form - have a hand in Mourvedre from Mount Veeder.

The goal is to see if there is something unique, something shared, by Mourvedre grapes specific to this site. I would to post the results on the Facebook "Mourvedre Appreciation Social Club" page, as well as here. :)

The late-80's Mt Veeder (Brandlin Vineyard) Mourvedre from Edmunds St John once received incredibly high praise from Domaine Tempier's Mssr Reynaud of Bandol (the spiritual home of this esteemed grape).

To my understanding, the only recent varietal bottlings are the Wertzberger 2011 Mt Veeder Mourvedre and Peter Franus 2005 Brandlin Vineyard Mourvedre. All others are Rhône-style red blends with some portion of Mourvedre included. The Scaggs Montage red wine is just under 50% Mourvedre, with Grenache, Syrah, and Counoise filling out the balance.

I have sent emails to:
• Scaggs Winery
• Longtable Winery
• Edmunds St John
• Progeny
• Bill Wertzberger Wines
• Daniel Roberts


I mistakenly thought that Relic Cellars produced a Mourvedre (or a blend) from the Paras Vineyard. I plan to contact Mr Peter Franus and Brandlin Vineyards.

Does anyone else have any guidance regarding who else I should reach out to in order to uncover the mystery of Mt Veeder Mourvedre's greatness?

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#108 Post by Drew Goin » October 28th, 2016, 3:50 pm

Basic Edmunds St John Mt Veeder Mourvedre Data:
_________________________________________

Wine Spectator :

Edmunds St John
Mourvèdre Napa Valley 1986

Score: 87
Release Price: $15
Country: California
Region: Napa

Issue: Apr 15, 1989
Tasting Note:

"Very peppery and ripe, with delicious black cherry flavor on the finish, lean and complex on the finish. Not for everyone, but if you like Châteauneuf, this one has the character in spades."

Articles:

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/apr/23/food/fo-wine23

http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2 ... ottle.html

http://www.paulmarcuswines.com/archived ... -in-france

http://edmundsstjohn.com/newsletter
(Displays as "Not found", yet provides access to many older Newsletters:

http://edmundsstjohn.com/organolepticia ... l-18-2002/

http://edmundsstjohn.com/dont-know-much-about-history/

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The Greatness of Mt Veeder Mourvedre

#109 Post by Ken Zinns » October 28th, 2016, 5:44 pm

Drew Goin wrote:Does anyone else have any guidance regarding who else I should reach out to in order to uncover the mystery of Mt Veeder Mourvedre's greatness?
Since Steve Lagier and Carole Meredith have lived on Mt. Veeder for a number of years and know the people and the vineyards there very well, it seems like it would be worth contacting them.
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#110 Post by Drew Goin » October 28th, 2016, 6:34 pm

Thanks Ken!!

I previously asked Dr Carole if she could help me identify the site which accounts for the 1/2 acre of Carignan on Mt Veeder. She said she didn't know.

I will be sure to check to see if she might know of Mourvedre on the mountain, as in this case, there have been varietal bottlings in the past (unlike the Carignan).

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#111 Post by Drew Goin » January 10th, 2017, 6:03 pm

Well, this is cool...
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#112 Post by Steven Miller » January 11th, 2017, 10:02 am

Magic juice.
tread lightly

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What, No Mourvedre Appreciation Delegation?

#113 Post by s.spewock » January 11th, 2017, 11:11 am

Drew Goin wrote:Thanks Ken!!

I previously asked Dr Carole if she could help me identify the site which accounts for the 1/2 acre of Carignan on Mt Veeder. She said she didn't know.

I will be sure to check to see if she might know of Mourvedre on the mountain, as in this case, there have been varietal bottlings in the past (unlike the Carignan).

I think Skaggs vineyard has Mourvedre on Mt. Veeder.
Stan Spewock

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#114 Post by Lee Short » January 11th, 2017, 12:02 pm

Wes Barton wrote:Jon, I've had plenty of jammy Mourvedres from Spain, Washington and Australia, but very few from CA. Maybe it's because people who want to make jammy wines are playing to pop culture hype, so they choose an en vogue variety like Pinot or Cab, while the people who seek it out have a passion for, and understanding of, the grape.
I don't have a ton of experience with California Mourvedres -- but that's precisely because most of those that I did try were jammy, which is a characteristic I have a strong aversion to. And those wines did include Jade Mt, and especially Cline. Jammy is in the eye of the beholder.

The couple of Ridge Mataro bottles I've tried were pretty likeable, but not quite compelling enough to make me search out more bottles.

But I do love me some Bandol and Minervois -- either in the summer with grilled pork, or in the winter with pork and beans. I'm making some cassoulet for saturday, will be opening either Tempier or Pradeaux or d'Oupia. While I must agree that Monastrell is indeed a minefield of jamminess, I have found a number that I like.

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#115 Post by Wes Barton » January 11th, 2017, 2:03 pm

Lee Short wrote:
Wes Barton wrote:Jon, I've had plenty of jammy Mourvedres from Spain, Washington and Australia, but very few from CA. Maybe it's because people who want to make jammy wines are playing to pop culture hype, so they choose an en vogue variety like Pinot or Cab, while the people who seek it out have a passion for, and understanding of, the grape.
I don't have a ton of experience with California Mourvedres -- but that's precisely because most of those that I did try were jammy, which is a characteristic I have a strong aversion to. And those wines did include Jade Mt, and especially Cline. Jammy is in the eye of the beholder.

The couple of Ridge Mataro bottles I've tried were pretty likeable, but not quite compelling enough to make me search out more bottles.

But I do love me some Bandol and Minervois -- either in the summer with grilled pork, or in the winter with pork and beans. I'm making some cassoulet for saturday, will be opening either Tempier or Pradeaux or d'Oupia. While I must agree that Monastrell is indeed a minefield of jamminess, I have found a number that I like.
I hear you. Simply picking late is sort of a winemaking cop out. Not that there are some great riper style Moos out there, at least to the palates of some beholders. More that it's different enough of a variety that you can't just make it they same way you make your Cabs and Zins and expect the same level of quality. If you want excellent ones from CA you need to sniff out producers who truly love the variety and put in the effort to understand it and let it shine. Others may just make it because they found some available, want to fill out a portfolio or whatever.
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#116 Post by Drew Goin » January 11th, 2017, 8:41 pm

I believe that it is safe to say that the Mourvedre wines from Dirty and Rowdy are far from jammy. That may be a place to begin. :)

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#117 Post by Lee Short » January 12th, 2017, 10:18 pm

Drew Goin wrote:I believe that it is safe to say that the Mourvedre wines from Dirty and Rowdy are far from jammy. That may be a place to begin. :)
I've seen a number of good things posted about the wines from folks whose palates I know and trust. Looks like the 'Familiar' is available here in PDX -- will pick up a bottle.

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#118 Post by larry schaffer » January 12th, 2017, 10:26 pm

Plenty of us out there digging this variety - and having fun working with, whether it be in SB County, up in Paso, or up North of us.

For those in CA, consider attending a Rhone Rangers event - you'll find plenty of them . . .

Cheers!
larry schaffer
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#119 Post by Joseph MR » January 13th, 2017, 3:54 pm

The Mourvèdre in my 1998 Beaucastel is showing very well tonight.
ra + * ter

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#120 Post by Drew Goin » January 13th, 2017, 4:06 pm

Joseph MR wrote:The Mourvèdre in my 1998 Beaucastel is showing very well tonight.
Phenomenal wine! I only had it in it's youth, but Beaucastel was one of my first "revelation wines".

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#121 Post by Joseph MR » January 13th, 2017, 4:46 pm

Drew,
I wish that I had been more patient with my other bottles of this! Finishing tonight with a bit of leftover Dirty & Rowdy Familiar 2014. Both this and the also high acid Enderle & Moll Spatburgunder Liason cruised effortlessly for days without losing any freshness.
ra + * ter

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#122 Post by Drew Goin » January 13th, 2017, 5:21 pm

In the Santa Barbara area, I know that Bedford has been involved with Rhône-style wines for a good while. For some reason, I keep regarding the region as an up-and-coming spot for my favorite grapes, despite Zaca Mesa and other wineries/vineyards that are evidence of the contrary. :|

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#123 Post by Drew Goin » January 13th, 2017, 5:29 pm

Joseph MR wrote:Drew,
I wish that I had been more patient with my other bottles of this! Finishing tonight with a bit of leftover Dirty & Rowdy Familiar 2014. Both this and the also high acid Enderle & Moll Spatburgunder Liason cruised effortlessly for days without losing any freshness.
That sounds like a strong contrast of wine styles (Beaucastel along with D&R and E&M)! I am sure that they were all delicious. :)

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#124 Post by Bdklein » January 13th, 2017, 5:57 pm

So I have a bottle of 2015 Rasi from Paso Robles. Not knowing much on this wine/grape (then again, I don't know much about ANY wine/grape), do you think is something that should be drank soon or needs time to celllar? Eaten with (types?) food? Any other info? I will email the winemaker and she what she says.
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#125 Post by M. Dildine » January 13th, 2017, 6:41 pm

This one, to be released Tuesday (Once and Future), intrigues me (note by Joel Peterson):

Oakley Road Mataro

Mataro is the name Mourvedre, the famous grape of Bandol, is known by in California. The Mataro grape has been planted in California since the 1870’s, mostly as an adjunct in blends were Zinfandel dominated. Though scarce, there are a few places where Mataro is an exceptional standalone grape. One of those places is Oakley. In the eastern rain shadow of Mount Diablo near the San Joaquin river, vines on the own roots planted to sand dune like soils in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s still produce some of the most interesting and highly regarded Mataro in California. The soils are so sandy that early growers in this region were disparaged as Sand-Lappers. Little did those wags know that the delta sands with their Phylloxera inhibiting properties would be the key to the survival of these amazing 100 plus year old, own rooted, unirrigated vines.

The micro climate of Oakley allows grapes to ripen early. It is not so much that it is hot during the growing months, the average temperature is about 74 degrees with the nights being in the mid 50’s and the days being in the 90’s during the month of July and August, it is that the sandy soils warm begins in the year than most other areas in California and vine growth starts sooner. As the season progresses the grapes continue to ripen consistently, in spite of the cooling maritime winds from the Carquinez straits, due to the reflected sun from the Antioch sandy soils. These are the kinds of conditions that are perfect for a slow ripening grape like Mataro.

The resulting wines can be, in a word, graceful. The smoky, soft cherry, plum flavors are well developed and full, the acid perfectly balanced and the tannins soft and round. The combination of own roots, old vines, deep sandy soils and cooling afternoon breezes seems to encourage gentle, suave wines. While some winemakers like to make big powerful dark wines from these grapes though I believe the wines are much more enjoyable, interesting, complex and finer when picked earlier.

These Oakley Road vines may not be around much longer. This part of Contra Costa (CoCo for short) is changing rapidly. It has been an industrial back water for a long time. High tension electrical lines, a PG&E power plant, motels that rent by the hour stand in contrast to an inordinate number of churches, and an increasing number of fast food restaurants populate a disjointed human landscape. There is increasing urbanization as roads are widened and BART pushes east. A number of these vineyards are for sale with inflated land prices having been designated as commercial land, land costs that are more compatible with strip malls than farming. For now, the vines remain in the ground producing viticultural treasure. For now, we continue to make lovely wine and cherish our moment.
Cheers,

Mike

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#126 Post by Drew Goin » January 14th, 2017, 12:40 am

I am very excited about Mr Peterson's Mataro/Monastrell/Mourvedre in the upcoming Once and Future release!!! :)

The "Oakley Road Vineyard" = "Del Barba Vineyard" in Oakley, CA. The vines are 116-years-old (as of 2015?).
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#127 Post by Drew Goin » January 14th, 2017, 12:45 am

Bdklein wrote:So I have a bottle of 2015 Rasi from Paso Robles. Not knowing much on this wine/grape (then again, I don't know much about ANY wine/grape), do you think is something that should be drank soon or needs time to celllar? Eaten with (types?) food? Any other info? I will email the winemaker and she what she says.
The details of RASI wines elude me. The website does not have much information on the Mourvedre, alas. I imagine that the wine will be a big 'un, possibly with a lot of oak. This is blind speculation on my part, however.

If you do not plan to age the Mourvedre for a while, I would decant it and serve it with brisket or some other large piece of meat.

Best wishes!

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#128 Post by Bdklein » January 14th, 2017, 2:33 am

Drew Goin wrote:
Bdklein wrote:So I have a bottle of 2015 Rasi from Paso Robles. Not knowing much on this wine/grape (then again, I don't know much about ANY wine/grape), do you think is something that should be drank soon or needs time to celllar? Eaten with (types?) food? Any other info? I will email the winemaker and she what she says.
The details of RASI wines elude me. The website does not have much information on the Mourvedre, alas. I imagine that the wine will be a big 'un, possibly with a lot of oak. This is blind speculation on my part, however.

If you do not plan to age the Mourvedre for a while, I would decant it and serve it with brisket or some other large piece of meat.

Best wishes!
Thanks a lot.

I forgot the winemaker did previously give me her input. Says wine doesn't need decanting since it is on the mellow side, but a few years in the bottle would benefit the wine.

But since my wife doesn't eat beef (pork once in a while), I guess I will have it with some other people when having a steak (which isn't too frequent)
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#129 Post by Drew Goin » February 3rd, 2017, 4:42 pm

The pre-Tablas/ENTAV selections of Mourvedre vine material in California's older vineyards have been on my mind for a little while, now.

The best documentation I have found that links pre-prohibition CA Mourvedre to their original Old World source speaks of the Pellier family and their trips to France and back to the Santa Clara area.

Anyway, I discovered that the Stolpman Vineyards folks were linked up with the 122-year-old Enz Vineyard, of Lime Kiln Valley, by Mr Ian Brand. 36,000 cuttings were secured by Mr Pete Stolpman, with an optimist "take percentage" of ~98%!!! :o

The following link tells a little bit about an ongoing effort to plant, grow, and bottle a new Mourvedre from the Balllard Canyon region in SBC. I find it exciting, since the genetic material is from a part of California's winemaking history:

http://www.stolpmanvineyards.com/blog/v ... re-cuttin/

http://www.stolpmanvineyards.com/blog/v ... revisited/

Cool pictures, too! :)
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#130 Post by Barry Paul Price » February 3rd, 2017, 4:50 pm

Jon Hesford wrote:I make and love Mourvedre. I've been a member of both Grenache Symposium and Carignan Renaissance but I've hunted for Mourvedre groups in vain. I asked loads of Bandol producers at Vinisud 2 years ago. There isn't one. A real shame because it's a variety with lots of terroir expression and one that can make very different and wonderful wines.
Completely agree! Love Mourvedre in it's own right! In Syrah's shadow, unfortunately.
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#131 Post by Barry Paul Price » February 3rd, 2017, 4:54 pm

Drew Goin wrote:The pre-Tablas/ENTAV selections of Mourvedre vine material in California's older vineyards have been on my mind for a little while, now.

The best documentation I have found that links pre-prohibition CA Mourvedre to their original Old World source speaks of the Pellier family and their trips to France and back to the Santa Clara area.

Anyway, I discovered that the Stolpman Vineyards folks were linked up with the 122-year-old Enz Vineyard, of Lime Kiln Valley, by Mr Ian Brand. 36,000 cuttings were secured by Mr Pete Stolpman, with an optimist "take percentage" of ~98%!!! :o

The following link tells a little bit about an ongoing effort to plant, grow, and bottle a new Mourvedre from the Balllard Canyon region in SBC. I find it exciting, since the genetic material is from a part of California's winemaking history:

http://www.stolpmanvineyards.com/blog/v ... re-cuttin/

http://www.stolpmanvineyards.com/blog/v ... revisited/

Cool pictures, too! :)
Love it! Ballard has the perfect climate and terroir for that imo. I went on the Stolpman vineyard and villa hike last spring and it's a gorgeous vineyard and they source a lot of great fruit to other winemakers. Their Roussane is fantastic, as is the Jaffurs Roussane made with Stolpman fruit. Their vineyard director is great. If anyone can get those cuttings to take it's Ruben Solorzano. He's fantastic. Interesting little writeup on him... http://www.stolpmanvineyards.com/blog/v ... -vineyard/
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#132 Post by Drew Goin » February 25th, 2017, 12:54 am

Here's an interesting, if dated, overview of Washington state Mourvedre:

http://www.heraldnet.com/life/washingto ... exploring/

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#133 Post by Ken Zinns » February 25th, 2017, 7:17 am

Drew, in case you're interested, Harrington Wines released its first varietal Mourvèdre bottling not long ago, from the 2015 vintage, and sourced from Sumu Kaw Vineyard in El Dorado County. Tom Hill posted a note on it earlier this week.
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#134 Post by Drew Goin » August 3rd, 2017, 4:31 pm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/re ... story.html


Older article on various Spanish and California (maybe some French, too) Mourvedre wines.

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#135 Post by Barry Paul Price » August 3rd, 2017, 5:09 pm

I'm starting to really get into Mourvedres. A little harder to source them, but just so delicious. Liking the Carlisles right now. Wish I could get ahold of more Loring. Would like to try a Tercero too.
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#136 Post by Drew Goin » August 3rd, 2017, 7:13 pm

Barry, welcome to the wonderful world of Mourvedre!

I love Mourvedre (and Carignan). The eye-opening moment for me was my first taste of Beaucastel which, admittedly, is not 100% Mourvedre. My following experiences with Contra Costa Mataro led me down a path I have not since abandoned.

For my selection process, price-per-bottle plays a big role. I have assembled a minor collection of wines for a future "Grand Mourvedre Tasting" in my town. Unfortunately, I have popped a few bottles that had been set aside for this event. :|

One interesting fact: the overwhelming majority of recently-planted domestic Mourvedre vineyards use the "Tablas Clone". I have emailed Mr Jason Haas asking for his thoughts on the difference between TC Clone Mourved and the old-school clones available through FPS. His response:

"We found that there was more depth, more color, smaller berries, and generally more character in the French clones we brought in than the Mataro clone that we were able to source here. The new clones also were better able to ripen, with the Mataro clone stalling out around 21 brix and our new clones going up to a more reasonable 23 or 24 brix. It was the first variety we grafted over from the CA-source clones to our French clones."

When I saw that Peter Stolpman was planning cuttings from the ancient Enz Vineyard, instead of using Tablas material (or anything else available via a nursery) he stated:

"I generally stay away from nursery-propagated clones as they are usually bred for productivity on not character. Finding an old vine site like Enz is always awesome because we can taste the wines from there, and we are assured the vines are healthy without virus."

I almost always look for old-vine Mourvedre, but there just isn't that much around in the United States.

I hope you are blessed with years of delicious wines from my #1 favorite variety. :)

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#137 Post by Barry Paul Price » August 3rd, 2017, 10:47 pm

Drew Goin wrote:Barry, welcome to the wonderful world of Mourvedre!

I love Mourvedre (and Carignan). The eye-opening moment for me was my first taste of Beaucastel which, admittedly, is not 100% Mourvedre. My following experiences with Contra Costa Mataro led me down a path I have not since abandoned.

For my selection process, price-per-bottle plays a big role. I have assembled a minor collection of wines for a future "Grand Mourvedre Tasting" in my town. Unfortunately, I have popped a few bottles that had been set aside for this event. :|

One interesting fact: the overwhelming majority of recently-planted domestic Mourvedre vineyards use the "Tablas Clone". I have emailed Mr Jason Haas asking for his thoughts on the difference between TC Clone Mourved and the old-school clones available through FPS. His response:

"We found that there was more depth, more color, smaller berries, and generally more character in the French clones we brought in than the Mataro clone that we were able to source here. The new clones also were better able to ripen, with the Mataro clone stalling out around 21 brix and our new clones going up to a more reasonable 23 or 24 brix. It was the first variety we grafted over from the CA-source clones to our French clones."

When I saw that Peter Stolpman was planning cuttings from the ancient Enz Vineyard, instead of using Tablas material (or anything else available via a nursery) he stated:

"I generally stay away from nursery-propagated clones as they are usually bred for productivity on not character. Finding an old vine site like Enz is always awesome because we can taste the wines from there, and we are assured the vines are healthy without virus."

I almost always look for old-vine Mourvedre, but there just isn't that much around in the United States.

I hope you are blessed with years of delicious wines from my #1 favorite variety. :)

Great info Drew! I relate to having difficulty holding wines for future events, as sometimes I cannot resist drinking them.

I really enjoy having 100% varietal wines from grape that are typically blending grapes. The first time I had a 100% Mourvedre it was the Curtis Mourvedre and I loved it. (Do you know if that was Tablas Clone?)

I love that Mourvedre has my beloved dark fruits, great nose, sometimes a sanguine quality, and richness, acid, tannin -- the whole shebang.

(I also love Carignan, Cinsault, Petit Verdot and lots of other 'blending' grapes that I enjoy a lot in their own right)
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#138 Post by Drew Goin » August 4th, 2017, 6:21 am

Barry, a cursory look online yielded these results:

From Tablas Creek (Nursery Page):

"To provide ourselves with the high quality Rhone grape varieties we wanted for our own vineyard, we imported new cuttings of Mourvedre, Grenache, Syrah, Counoise, Roussanne, Marsanne, Viognier, Grenache Blanc and Picpoul Blanc from the Beaucastel estate. These plants all went through a rigorous USDA-mandated 3-year quarantine.

"In 1992, we planted rootstock fields and built grafting and greenhouse facilities to propagate and graft our cuttings. These produced the grapevines we used to plant our estate vineyard beginning in 1994.

"Beginning in 1996, we made available for sale these high-quality grafted vines and budwood to interested growers through the Tablas Creek Nursery. Between 1996 and 2004 we sold more than one million cuttings to interested vineyards and wineries from California to Washington State to Virginia and Texas."


http://www.tablascreek.com/vineyard_and ... ng/nursery

From Andrew Murray (Curtis Vineyard Mourvedre):

"I am very excited about this vintage of the Estate Grown Mourvèdre, crafted predominately from the Spanish clone, 369. This clone tends to ripen a bit earlier, with smaller berries. This helps us tremendously in our quest to produce a rich, dark, fruity & earthy & floral & spicy Mourvèdre."

https://store.andrewmurrayvineyards.com ... -p360.aspx

I will defer to the experts on the details of the Tablas Creek importation, quarantine, and cultivation debacle, as well as the tale of Curtis Winery's "Whatever Happened To..." anecdotes. :)

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#139 Post by Drew Goin » August 4th, 2017, 6:55 am

Allow me to muddy the water a little bit for you, thus calling for a local or "I followed them from the start" gentleman. ;)

Curtis Winery was established by the Firestone family, who released the first Curtis wines in 1995. The winery went to Bronco before Andrew Murray secured the vineyards. Whether or not the "Curtis" brand is still retained by Bronco is unknown to me.

Here's a confusing point: :o

The 2010 Curtis Mourvedre seems to have been sourced from the same vineyard as the 2014 Andrew Murray "Curtis Vineyard" Mourvedre. However, the 2010 notes stated that the wine came from the estate's 9-acre Mourvedre plot, which included two different clones, not merely the Spanish-sourced Clone 369. I cannot find the other one mentioned anywhere...yet.



Regardless, if Tablas Creek did not offer its Beaucastel vine material until 1996, and Curtis was bottling its Mourvedre in 1995, I believe it's safe to say that the stuff did not come from Tablas Creek.

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#140 Post by John Morris » August 4th, 2017, 7:33 am

Has anyone taken cuttings from the very old mourvedre vineyards in Contra Costa -- Evangelo and Bridgehead? Those produced some excellent wines.
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#141 Post by Drew Goin » August 4th, 2017, 9:47 am

Wondering the same thing here, John! :|

I know that heritage Zinfandel cuttings have been brought into Contra Costa, but I have not heard of any being sent from CoCo to somewhere else.

For example, the book A Zinfandel Odyssey by Ms Rhoda Stewart mentions that Kent Rosenblum worked with Tony Cutino and Dwight Meadows to plant budwood from Costa Magna, St Peter's Church, Hendry Vineyard, Brandlin Vineyard, as well as the Samsel Vineyard in new Contra Costa vineyard sites in the '90s.

Wait, you are talking about Mourvedre?!?

Yeeaahhh... :(

All I see that is promising is that Matt Cline of Three Wine Company (formerly of Cline Cellars) and Markus Bokisch of Bokisch recently submitted Oakley-sourced Mourvedre/Mataro plant material to FPS.

Matt Cline donated Mourvedre vine goodness from the 5-acre old Spinelli Vineyard in CoCo. The FPS listing for the Bokisch Mourvedre does not specify from which Oakley vineyard the vines were derived.

http://fps.ucdavis.edu/fgrdetails.cfm?varietyid=1659

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#142 Post by Barry Paul Price » August 4th, 2017, 11:07 am

Sidebar: Wines with weird names are harder to market here in the US. Calling Mourvedre something simpler to pronounce would held, no?

Cabernet
Chardonnay

That pesky "dre", with a v in front of it may not seem like a big deal but I bet it's a speedbump to Mourvedre becoming more 'virally' popular. Think of someone saying it wrong at a restaurant and being embarrassed. Easier to say the one you know how to pronounce.
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#143 Post by Sean Devaney » August 4th, 2017, 11:19 pm

Barry Paul Price wrote:Sidebar: Wines with weird names are harder to market here in the US. Calling Mourvedre something simpler to pronounce would held, no?

Cabernet
Chardonnay

That pesky "dre", with a v in front of it may not seem like a big deal but I bet it's a speedbump to Mourvedre becoming more 'virally' popular. Think of someone saying it wrong at a restaurant and being embarrassed. Easier to say the one you know how to pronounce.
...and hence why some wineries use Mataro on their labels. Ridge uses Mataro when it is part of their blends with (Mourvedre) right after Mataro on the label. In Spain the variety Mourvedre is called Monastrell.

FWIW Ridge has produced a few Mataro's over the years but I don't recall any recently.

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#144 Post by Barry Paul Price » August 4th, 2017, 11:55 pm

Sean Devaney wrote:
Barry Paul Price wrote:Sidebar: Wines with weird names are harder to market here in the US. Calling Mourvedre something simpler to pronounce would held, no?

Cabernet
Chardonnay

That pesky "dre", with a v in front of it may not seem like a big deal but I bet it's a speedbump to Mourvedre becoming more 'virally' popular. Think of someone saying it wrong at a restaurant and being embarrassed. Easier to say the one you know how to pronounce.
...and hence why some wineries use Mataro on their labels. Ridge uses Mataro when it is part of their blends with (Mourvedre) right after Mataro on the label. In Spain the variety Mourvedre is called Monastrell.

FWIW Ridge has produced a few Mataro's over the years but I don't recall any recently.
Which brings up another challenge, different names being used in different countries.

I love mourvedre. Just wish more people knew about it.
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#145 Post by H Wallace Jr » August 5th, 2017, 7:38 am

Barry Paul Price wrote: I love mourvedre. Just wish more people knew about it.
For CA, the main struggle (though there are several) is that there is not a lot of it planted. We have about 1000 acres of Mourvèdre, but a lot of those acres consist of a small / smallish blocks that were planted primarily for blending or to make a small / club wine. To create awareness you need enough volume to be visible-- which then requires most wineries to blend a lot of small vineyard blocks together from multiple vineyards to create a single wine barely big enough. It is a logistical challenge (to be polite) for wineries, especially if their bread and butter comes from other varieties.

I'm guessing the largest single variety bottling of Mourvèdre in CA is Cline-- That might be the only one in the thousands of cases (I saw one review saying production was close to 15,000 cases for the '10 which seems pretty high), but beyond that are there more than a few in CA that even top 1000 cases for a single bottling? Cass makes 1000, our '15 Familiar was 1100 (but then down to 700 in '16)... there are probably a couple more... Bonny Doon? That is not a lot of wine, even for geeks.

Looking forward- there are some very cool and exciting plantings going in and some blocks being getting grafted over, but there still will not be enough volume of Mourvèdre in CA to be more than a drop...

The silver lining is that when faced with such scarce quantity, we can all focus on quality. [cheers.gif]
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#146 Post by larry schaffer » August 5th, 2017, 8:41 am

As this variety becomes more popular, the interesting thing will be to see which wines are used as benchmarks. I know the same can be said about Grenache - is Rayas a benchmark or Clos Erasmus or Alban or ???

I absolutely dig mourvedre and make more of it than any other variety. As Hardy points out, that there is not a lot of it planted, you are many new plantings coming on board.

That said, to me, this is a variety that really needs to be considered differently than other varieties during the winemaking process. What I've seen with many currently on the market are ones with too much of an oak signature, overwhelming some of the delicate aspects of the variety. I'm hoping this is a learning curve, but my assumption is that it's probably not - the general consumer, and even many regular wine consumers, seem to really like those characteristics.

I guess we will see where things go . . .
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#147 Post by Drew Goin » August 5th, 2017, 3:30 pm

larry schaffer wrote: That said, to me, this is a variety that really needs to be considered differently than other varieties during the winemaking process. What I've seen with many currently on the market are ones with too much of an oak signature, overwhelming some of the delicate aspects of the variety. I'm hoping this is a learning curve, but my assumption is that it's probably not - the general consumer, and even many regular wine consumers, seem to really like those characteristics.

I guess we will see where things go . . .
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#148 Post by Drew Goin » August 5th, 2017, 3:33 pm

I am excited to see more folks participating in this thread!! :)

I feel foolishly self-indulgent when I keep posting pictures, musings, etc, on a thread that has basically become my personal repository of information/websites. :|

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#149 Post by Tony Trumbo » August 5th, 2017, 5:07 pm

Love more people discovering and talking about Mourvedre. It has climbed to the top of varietals loved by my wife and me. While its always a bit of bummer that it is not so readily available I agree with Hardy that it does allow those that do make it to focus on quality. Those making it typically have a passion for the grape and not just trying to drive volume sales.

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#150 Post by Drew Goin » August 7th, 2017, 12:13 pm

I am sharing this communique from Mr Herb Quady, who grows Mourvedre on the Quady North Estate "Mae's Vineyard" in the Applegate Valley, Oregon, from another thread:

"Mourvèdre is one of my favorite varieties as well. I especially love big Bandols like Chateau Pradeaux.

"We grow Mourvèdre on our Estate in the Applegate
[Mae's Vineyard] and also source it from the Folin Vineyard in the Upper Rogue. From our cooler Applegate site we use it as part of our GSM rosé, where it serves nicely to tame down the ester-y qualities of Grenache and Syrah. From the warmer upper Rogue, we do our best to make it into red wine. As you correctly surmised, the season here is not quite long enough for the fruit to develop fully ripe and concentrated qualities that we associate with Bandol. However, it is perfect for our red GSM. We ultimately blend about 15-25% Mourvèdre with the Grenache and Syrah and the wine is always better for it.

"Perhaps over time as the vines become older and the harvests get warmer we can do more stand alone Mourvèdre. We did bottle it once as a stand alone, in 2013. It was nice enough and fun for me, but doesn't compare to the great bottlings out there. Unfortunately we sold out of that last year."
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