Latest blog post from Matt Kramer over at WS.
Interesting topic, and one that certainly rings true around here - all around. From those who look at CT and ‘peer review’ as their guide to choosing wines to ‘mob mentality’, when someone posts about a ‘board favorite’ and has less than stellar things to say . . .
Discuss away.
Fun column.
A few years ago, we invited a 21 year old niece to join us at a Shakespeare Fesitival in Cedar City, Utah.
(Don’t turn me in, but…) we take wine and make dinners and see plays and play board games and have a generally fun time.
At a family dinner beforehand, the niece’s mom “forbade” the niece (who lives at home) to go, telling her that we were being “pretentious with all that Shakespeare crap.”
I thought it was funny, and started to laugh. The mom got even more upset and so I tried to be more agreeable, saying, “Anne, we aren’t pretentious, we’re elitist.”
So, anyway, that column reminded me of that.
We are definitely elitist snobs here…but I mean that in the best way. We explore our hobby, love it, and naturally think it’s a great way to go!
Agreed!
There was a guy some time ago who posted a recipe, I guess it was some Paula Deen thing that involved a package brownie mix and some other stuff. Thinking I was continuing his wise-ass remarks, I posted something about gagging or some such.
In a million years I would never have dreamed he was serious. He actually believed that some package mix and some Paula Deen suggestions would result in something edible. He was offended and when I realized he wasn’t joking, I was very apologetic. I really didn’t want to be a jerk. It’s just, well, Paula Deen. I would have been more gentle had I known.
But in the end, really, who cares? The mob mentality has made stars out of the Khardashians and profitable businesses out of shit like Oreos and MacDonalds. Why concern yourself with the opinions of the people who can stomach that crap? The mob mentality doesn’t matter unless you let it.
Interesting article, thanks for posting.
I don’t however, recognize this behaviour on this board. I guess everyone here pretty much would admit to some of those labels!
But there are some interesting points raised. For my mind, when discussing food and wine in particular, there is a fine line to tread to not be pretentious or appear to come across as aloof, projecting an ‘i am the arbiter of good taste’ persona. I believe it’s important to express your position or value judgement as driven by passion for the subject and its intricacies, that is by the appreciation of quality at a fundamental level based on experience and thirst for knowledge and not for ‘social positioning’.
Generally, people will recognise passion for what it is and maybe even respect it. But if not and they still insist on fixing the elitist label, i think it is then necessary to turn to other arguments that differentiate quality: environmental impact, health benefits, small independent producers vs. corporate mass market, social equity etc… I think this is especially relevant to food, with reference to Greg’s example.
Like many of Matt Kramer’s columns, I find that he tends to vastly oversimplify things. For example, the whole concept of “the new wine democracy” and populists vs. snobs/elitists. Sorry, Matt, but that dynamic has been going on in the wine biz for DECADES; it’s not a new phenomenon. As an example, think of all the people you see at Trader Joe’s buying Two Buck Chuck by the case and shaking their heads at anyone who would spend more than $5 or $10 on a bottle of wine. Or if you really go back in time, think of all the jug wine like Gallo’s Hearty Burgundy or the Carlo Rossi line. For those of you have been into wine that long, you’ll undoubtedly remember people who bought those wines who thought people buying $25 fine Bordeaux were crazy/elitist/show-offs.
While the Internet has played its own part in this dynamic, the underlying phenomenon has always been there.
Bruce
He made some very astute observations about typical internet behavior, most of which was found here. Again, I’ll use the Caymus 40th thread - it started off insulting anyone who liked that and got worse from there. Perfect example of S & E. As mentioned, this behavior has gone on for ages. The internet just magnifies it exponentially.
Thanks for the link - I’m bookmarking the index for his blog posts.
However, Bruce, I would like to be paying $25 for fine Bordeaux or Burgundy today. My first bottle of Bordeaux in 1968 was $12, was a 61 Leoville Las Cases and I thought i had spent my whole week’s allowable food money on it.
That $12 LLC in today’s dollars would be over $80. Cheap by LLC standards, but by no means an inexpensive wine!
The problem of hypocritical egalitarianism has been acknowledge for for longer than there has been popular wine culture . . . . John Stuart Mill commented on exactly that phenomenon in the 19th century. His point was that those who assume the mantle of egalitarianism are often loathe to have it applied to themselves - in fact, the very act of becoming a voice for it means you are not abiding by it!
I have rarely been accused of being pretentious about my passion for wine, and have rarely if ever encountered people who felt that drinking fine wine is snooty. But then, that’s probably a “selection effect” that reflects the sort of people I tend to associate with - most of us in academia are in it because we want to learn, and we want to share what we have learned.
Great festival. I have attended countless times, but it never crossed my mind that I was an elitist because of that.
I guess I should have gone cow tipping instead.