Kosta Browne SV Offering
Kosta Browne SV Offering
I finally came up on the list and will be able to buy some single vineyard K-B pinots this week. However, I'm not so sure I really want to purchase. Can anyone tell me what to expect - will I get offered all wines, or just a few? For what it is worth, it was interesting to note that the Wine Spectator scores for the appellation wines equaled or exceeded those for the SV's (except for Kanzler and Pisoni). Yeah, I know, scores aren't everything, but it makes you wonder if the SV's are worth the extra bucks...
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Gotta try them and see.
There is some gambling involved in finding out which ones best match your palate.
There is some gambling involved in finding out which ones best match your palate.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I suspect you'll get offered a few of the higher production wines first. Kosta Browne rewards people who purchase consistently.
Don't hesitate to wishlist any wines that you don't get allocated. You've got nothing to lose.
Disclaimer...
I've been buying Kosta Browne pinots since the 2002 vintage.
Don't hesitate to wishlist any wines that you don't get allocated. You've got nothing to lose.
Disclaimer...
I've been buying Kosta Browne pinots since the 2002 vintage.
Budman
Kosta Browne SV Offering
+1. When I first got an allocation of SVD wines it was small and for only one or two. A combo of wishlisting, expanded production, and so forth over several years my allocation is a lot larger and covers most of the wines with at least 1 or 2 bottles.Bud Carey wrote:I suspect you'll get offered a few of the higher production wines first. Kosta Browne rewards people who purchase consistently.
Don't hesitate to wishlist any wines that you don't get allocated. You've got nothing to lose.
Disclaimer...
I've been buying Kosta Browne pinots since the 2002 vintage.
My recollection is you may not be able to wishlist for everything - I seem to recall that's limited too.
Andrew H e i m e r t
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My first two times getting the fall SVD allocation, I only got three bottles of Gap's Crown (plus I think the Chardonnay used to be in the fall, probably not anymore).
Then my third fall offering (after buying the 3 Gap's Crown each of the prior two falls), I got offered Koplen, Keefer and Kanzler as well.
I'd say this - if you want to become a regular SVD buyer and eventually get the Ks, you probably need to buy what they offer you the next few years. Their allocation model is pretty much "you can buy up to as much as you bought last year," but that's a pretty pricey train to stay on. My last two orders from them scaled back some - I guess I'll see if my new allocations reflect them, and I expect they will.
As far as the wines themselves? The SVDs are not that different from the Sonoma Coast and RRV bottlings. They are maybe just a little "more" in terms of power and intensity, which may be a good thing or not a good thing depending on what you like, but it's a fairly subtle difference not a big one. I'm tending towards thinking that, given pricing and all, the SC and RRV probably give me about as much fun as the SVDs, and I'll probably make most of my purchases in the spring going forward.
Then my third fall offering (after buying the 3 Gap's Crown each of the prior two falls), I got offered Koplen, Keefer and Kanzler as well.
I'd say this - if you want to become a regular SVD buyer and eventually get the Ks, you probably need to buy what they offer you the next few years. Their allocation model is pretty much "you can buy up to as much as you bought last year," but that's a pretty pricey train to stay on. My last two orders from them scaled back some - I guess I'll see if my new allocations reflect them, and I expect they will.
As far as the wines themselves? The SVDs are not that different from the Sonoma Coast and RRV bottlings. They are maybe just a little "more" in terms of power and intensity, which may be a good thing or not a good thing depending on what you like, but it's a fairly subtle difference not a big one. I'm tending towards thinking that, given pricing and all, the SC and RRV probably give me about as much fun as the SVDs, and I'll probably make most of my purchases in the spring going forward.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I am leaning in this direction as well.Chris Seiber wrote:...
As far as the wines themselves? The SVDs are not that different from the Sonoma Coast and RRV bottlings. ... I'm tending towards thinking that, given pricing and all, the SC and RRV probably give me about as much fun as the SVDs, and I'll probably make most of my purchases in the spring going forward.
I have not found the RRV SVDs to be that distinguishable one from another (particularly Keefer and Koplen). Bottle pricing together with 2 day airfare has pushed the all-in cost close to the limit of my comfort zone for a bottle of wine.
As for the offering, my guess is as a first time buyer, you will see Gap's Crown, Kanzler, Keefer and perhaps Gary's and Giusti. Unlikely to be offered Pisoni. But that is all just a guess on my part.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I doubt it will ever happen for me, since none of my friends buy KB, but it would be interesting to do a blind tasting of different bottlings from recent vintages. I wonder if I would be able to tell which is which and whether I would prefer one over the other.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I made the SVD list last fall for the first time, having bought appellations since the 07 vintage. I was offered Gaps Crown and Keefer.
Anyway, I've only had one SVD, but I thought that was noticeably different in body and concentration compared to the appellations – at least the Russian River and Sonoma Coast (I have yet to crack a SLH).
At least the appellations, while never the picture of restraint, are significantly lighter on their feet then, for instance, Aubert, Kistler, DuMol, R-M, etc. That is no doubt a low bar get under for many here, but it is nonetheless a distinction.
I will be cracking a 2012 SVD in the near future so I have a little extra data before I order the 13s, and I'll report back.
Anyway, I've only had one SVD, but I thought that was noticeably different in body and concentration compared to the appellations – at least the Russian River and Sonoma Coast (I have yet to crack a SLH).
At least the appellations, while never the picture of restraint, are significantly lighter on their feet then, for instance, Aubert, Kistler, DuMol, R-M, etc. That is no doubt a low bar get under for many here, but it is nonetheless a distinction.
I will be cracking a 2012 SVD in the near future so I have a little extra data before I order the 13s, and I'll report back.
Tim
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Didn't get my email yet, but allocations are live. Prices are up (again) to $90 per bottle from $84 last year.
Budman
Kosta Browne SV Offering
Yep . . . , which is up from $78 two years ago.Bud Carey wrote:Didn't get my email yet, but allocations are live. Prices are up (again) to $90 per bottle from $84 last year.
I didn't see an option for wish-listing. Just me?
<edit> email received . . . they've moved up the order-by date by 2-3 weeks this year
Last edited by AndrewH on September 16th, 2015, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I have wish list options on all wines offered. It might be an allocation tier thing... just guessing.
Budman
Kosta Browne SV Offering
Ahh, now I see it. I think maybe the new website doesn't have the kinks fully worked out. The first time I clicked through I could only access the allocated wines, up to the max for me. Now, having clicked "purchase all my allocation" it brings up a second drop down for wish lists. (Obviously you can't wish list if you don't purchase all of a given wine).Bud Carey wrote:I have wish list options on all wines offered. It might be an allocation tier thing... just guessing.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
First time buying this SVD and my allocation is only 3 bottles (2 gaps and 1 keefer).
A M u l y o n o
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Gap's is my favorite.Andre M wrote:First time buying this SVD and my allocation is only 3 bottles (2 gaps and 1 keefer).
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
If you wish list a few and they're granted, your allocation will likely go up next year.
Budman
Kosta Browne SV Offering
I get offered a lot since I am an original buyer but getting too expensive. $111 shipped in and I still have to travel to pick the wine up. Will just buy a few.
Bill Jenny
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I feel your pain. I remember then the SVDs were less than $50, and the Sonoma Coast was $28.
However, we barrel tasted these last year, and they were stellar.
However, we barrel tasted these last year, and they were stellar.
Budman
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
So, last year, I bought 2 Koplen, 1 Keefer, 2 Kanzler. My allocation this year? 2 Koplen, 1 Keefer, 2 Kanzler. Plus 1 Rosella.Chris Seiber wrote:My first two times getting the fall SVD allocation, I only got three bottles of Gap's Crown (plus I think the Chardonnay used to be in the fall, probably not anymore).
Then my third fall offering (after buying the 3 Gap's Crown each of the prior two falls), I got offered Koplen, Keefer and Kanzler as well.
I'd say this - if you want to become a regular SVD buyer and eventually get the Ks, you probably need to buy what they offer you the next few years. Their allocation model is pretty much "you can buy up to as much as you bought last year," but that's a pretty pricey train to stay on. My last two orders from them scaled back some - I guess I'll see if my new allocations reflect them, and I expect they will.
One thing I love about KB is the detailed data sheets on every wine they make. Alcohol, PH, TA, % destemmed, new oak %, length of time in barrel, harvest date, cold soak time, etc. etc.
Interesting to see the 2013 Koplen at a sprightly 14.3% alcohol and 3.57 pH. Cohn Vineyard at 13.4%. Gap's Crown 14.3%. These are definitely not the early years KB style, though of course they're not AFWE either.
Last edited by Chris Seiber on September 16th, 2015, 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kosta Browne SV Offering
I also made svd list this year, guessing the have had a lot of dropoff.
I do like the wines but over a c note delivered is getting high for any Cali pinot, i might be generalising but i dont see the complexity for this level of pricing. Also why do they think its ok to increase by $6 every year ? At this price you are at Saxum and Monte bello future prices and i dont see it. In fact Saxum is 10% cheaper
I do like the wines but over a c note delivered is getting high for any Cali pinot, i might be generalising but i dont see the complexity for this level of pricing. Also why do they think its ok to increase by $6 every year ? At this price you are at Saxum and Monte bello future prices and i dont see it. In fact Saxum is 10% cheaper
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
First time making SVD list.. 2 gap, 1 keefer..
but over $100 per bottle after tax/shipping.. pass.. I'll take a Barolo/Burg at those prices.
but over $100 per bottle after tax/shipping.. pass.. I'll take a Barolo/Burg at those prices.

Y.e.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
For me, the all in cost raises per bottle pricing to about $105.
I plan to curtail some of my wine purchasing and sadly, I think this will be one offering I will pass on. I hope that helps some first-timers to have wish lists granted.
I know KB provides some detailed data sheets on the wines but I have not seen production levels. Anybody know this years production levels?
I plan to curtail some of my wine purchasing and sadly, I think this will be one offering I will pass on. I hope that helps some first-timers to have wish lists granted.
I know KB provides some detailed data sheets on the wines but I have not seen production levels. Anybody know this years production levels?
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
According to the WS reviews in August:
Gap - 2481 cases
Kanzler - 665
Cohn - 60
Giusti - 949
Keefer - 1385
Koplen - 537
Gary - 493
Pisoni - 132
Rosella - 549
4 Barrel - 89
Gap - 2481 cases
Kanzler - 665
Cohn - 60
Giusti - 949
Keefer - 1385
Koplen - 537
Gary - 493
Pisoni - 132
Rosella - 549
4 Barrel - 89
Mark
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I ordered my allocation of eight because it's a wine my wife never complains about but I get wistful remembering the days when I would buy this stuff in the 60s.
Kosta Browne SV Offering
Private equity?Alan Eden wrote: Also why do they think its ok to increase by $6 every year ?
They're evidently exploring what the market will bear . . . presumably with a long waiting list people passing will allow them to find out just how eager those others are. As much as I like the wines (while choking on the price) it wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of movement on the waitlist as others say "oh, now that I'm getting an allocation it's $90++? thanks no".
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Price increase is frustrating, and I wouldn't consider Saxum pricing while making a KB buying decision. But Saxum is currently $98 plus tax, or roughly $103 all in. KB charges for shipping, but it still won't exceed Saxum, at least not to the Midwest.
Last edited by Tim Burnett on September 16th, 2015, 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tim
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
This was PE owned before the most recent transaction...AndrewH wrote:Private equity?Alan Eden wrote: Also why do they think its ok to increase by $6 every year ?
They're evidently exploring what the market will bear . . . presumably with a long waiting list people passing will allow them to find out just how eager those others are. As much as I like the wines (while choking on the price) it wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of movement on the waitlist as others say "oh, now that I'm getting an allocation it's $90++? thanks no".
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Wasn't given chance to Wishlist the 4 Barrelmmoyer wrote:According to the WS reviews in August:
Gap - 2481 cases
Kanzler - 665
Cohn - 60
Giusti - 949
Keefer - 1385
Koplen - 537
Gary - 493
Pisoni - 132
Rosella - 549
4 Barrel - 89
![[new-here.gif] newhere](./images/smilies/new-here.gif)
Kosta Browne SV Offering
First-time offer of 2 Gap's, 3 Giusti, 1 Keefer. Even if I buy the entire allocation, I cannot wish-list other wines in the SV lineup.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I got my first time offer as well, and I'm on the fence. I have really scaled back purchases, essentially passing on every mailer this fall. But, I plan on getting back in the game next year and think I might want to have this as an option again when my purchases go back up. Decisions, decisions.
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This is pretty much what has happened with most lists that have a significant wait in the last 10-15 years. By the time you get on, the prices have climbed to the point that there is not that much value, if any, in buying off the list.AndrewH wrote:Private equity?Alan Eden wrote: Also why do they think its ok to increase by $6 every year ?
They're evidently exploring what the market will bear . . . presumably with a long waiting list people passing will allow them to find out just how eager those others are. As much as I like the wines (while choking on the price) it wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of movement on the waitlist as others say "oh, now that I'm getting an allocation it's $90++? thanks no".
KB still does sell off the list at a lower price than you can buy at retail. Low WS Pro for recent vintages of Keefer is $115, Cohn is $125, Gary's is $120, Kanzler is $125, and of course that's the low, so everyone else is higher. I'm not suggesting anyone ought to value them at those prices, or at $90, or at all, but KB is one of the relatively small number that still sells you the wines for meaningfully less than you could buy at retail, so I give them a little credit for that.
As far as price increases, they haven't gone as nuts as it probably sounds. The 2007 Sonoma Coast and RRV pinots were $52, and the 2013s were $64. That's about a 3.5% annual rate of increase (the rate is probably higher if you go back to the earliest years, though - I don't know what the release prices were back then). Again, whether you think they're worth $64, or $52, or anything, is totally up to you. But the price increases, while consequential, haven't been too crazy.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
A LWS in my area is selling 2013 single vineyard bottling so for $145 a bottle.
Ace Citrang10
Kosta Browne SV Offering
True, although different PE firms may have different strategies for generating returns.YacobovE wrote:This was PE owned before the most recent transaction...AndrewH wrote:Private equity?Alan Eden wrote: Also why do they think its ok to increase by $6 every year ?
They're evidently exploring what the market will bear . . . presumably with a long waiting list people passing will allow them to find out just how eager those others are. As much as I like the wines (while choking on the price) it wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of movement on the waitlist as others say "oh, now that I'm getting an allocation it's $90++? thanks no".
Andrew H e i m e r t
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I wonder how much it matters who the equity owners of the winery. You have wines that are "worth" (in the economist's sense of worth - i.e. what buyers are willing to pay) $120-150 each, and you were selling them for $84 last fall.
I think probably any owners, whether it was Evil 1%er Wall Street Gordon Gecko types, or salt of the earth American Gothic mom and pop family who had toiled in those vineyards for three generations, would probably be raising the price. Don't you think?
I think probably any owners, whether it was Evil 1%er Wall Street Gordon Gecko types, or salt of the earth American Gothic mom and pop family who had toiled in those vineyards for three generations, would probably be raising the price. Don't you think?
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Anyone have an idea how long it takes to get offered Cohn or 4-Barrel?
This is my second or third time buying the SVDs, still no Cohn, Pisoni or 4-Barrel. I am buying about 10-12 bottles per allocation period.
This is my second or third time buying the SVDs, still no Cohn, Pisoni or 4-Barrel. I am buying about 10-12 bottles per allocation period.
$ t e v e H 0 m e w 0 0 d
Kosta Browne SV Offering
You will never get offered the 4-Barrel. Seriously.S.Homewood wrote:Anyone have an idea how long it takes to get offered Cohn or 4-Barrel?
This is my second or third time buying the SVDs, still no Cohn, Pisoni or 4-Barrel. I am buying about 10-12 bottles per allocation period.
Tom
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Ok I guess it must be that I wore my ruby red shoes today and clicked them just right but in my offer today, I got an allocation to buy one 4 Barrel. We've been on the list since about 2004 and have been mostly steady buyers.
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
An offering of a new release is a good opportunity to check on a prior vintage.
Opened a 2012 KB Keefer Ranch Pinot and shared with friends.
Pop and pour and served after dinner and without food.
Big, rich, ripe fruit. Red berries, ripe cherries and a spicy core that helps keep the wine focused. Moderate acidity. Enough acidity to help it from becoming candied. Guests enjoyed it. Well made, albeit in a riper, richer profile. The spice element keeps me going back to the glass for me. Quite enjoyable.
Opened a 2012 KB Keefer Ranch Pinot and shared with friends.
Pop and pour and served after dinner and without food.
Big, rich, ripe fruit. Red berries, ripe cherries and a spicy core that helps keep the wine focused. Moderate acidity. Enough acidity to help it from becoming candied. Guests enjoyed it. Well made, albeit in a riper, richer profile. The spice element keeps me going back to the glass for me. Quite enjoyable.
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Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine
I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines. . .
Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine
I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines. . .
Kosta Browne SV Offering
The first question is whether the incentives for profit maximization are the same across different owners.Chris Seiber wrote:I wonder how much it matters who the equity owners of the winery. You have wines that are "worth" (in the economist's sense of worth - i.e. what buyers are willing to pay) $120-150 each, and you were selling them for $84 last fall.
I think probably any owners, whether it was Evil 1%er Wall Street Gordon Gecko types, or salt of the earth American Gothic mom and pop family who had toiled in those vineyards for three generations, would probably be raising the price. Don't you think?
The second question is the time horizon for profit maximization (put differently, what's the future discount value for the given owner).
PE vs. mom and pop - Former likely to have stronger incentives for profit maximization over pursuing other goals, such as reputation. Also may have higher discount value because goal may be to increase short term revenues at expense of losing long term customers, with goal towards making stake more attractive to future buyer.. But that's a trickier question, and given that Childs apparently has a personal interest and friendship with Kosta-Browne may not apply in this situation.
But, as you pointed out above, overall the price increases have occurred at a relatively modest rate when smoothed over time. Although the SVDs have increased at nearly 7.5%/year over the last two.
Andrew H e i m e r t
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I think there are a lot of variables in what drives the value of a winery like KB, including mailing list size and recent purchasing history. I also don't know who the eventual target buyer would be or what the larger strategy is, but I would doubt the plan is to own KB as it is for longer than 6-8 years.
Tim
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
I've been buying their wines directly since 2003 (the 2001 Vintage) and I don't think I've over been offered the 4 barrel..
Michael Browne gave me one once, and it was very nice tho.....
Michael Browne gave me one once, and it was very nice tho.....

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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Good points, the time horizon on the ROI can be different depending on the ownership. As far as moving pricing up to reflect market demand, you see that from a John Alban, Tom Dehlinger or Kevin Harvey too. That's not a criticism of any of those three in the least - they make good products that people will pay a lot of money for, and they deserve the money they can get for them. But I can imagine that if Alban had been owned by some PE group or had been bought by a large corporation, many people would have perceived those same big price hikes in a very different and less favorable way.AndrewH wrote:The first question is whether the incentives for profit maximization are the same across different owners.Chris Seiber wrote:I wonder how much it matters who the equity owners of the winery. You have wines that are "worth" (in the economist's sense of worth - i.e. what buyers are willing to pay) $120-150 each, and you were selling them for $84 last fall.
I think probably any owners, whether it was Evil 1%er Wall Street Gordon Gecko types, or salt of the earth American Gothic mom and pop family who had toiled in those vineyards for three generations, would probably be raising the price. Don't you think?
The second question is the time horizon for profit maximization (put differently, what's the future discount value for the given owner).
PE vs. mom and pop - Former likely to have stronger incentives for profit maximization over pursuing other goals, such as reputation. Also may have higher discount value because goal may be to increase short term revenues at expense of losing long term customers, with goal towards making stake more attractive to future buyer.. But that's a trickier question, and given that Childs apparently has a personal interest and friendship with Kosta-Browne may not apply in this situation.
But, as you pointed out above, overall the price increases have occurred at a relatively modest rate when smoothed over time. Although the SVDs have increased at nearly 7.5%/year over the last two.
Kosta Browne SV Offering
If nothing else, we don't have enough information yet under new ownership to see if the rate of price increase has increased. Prior to last year it had been a bit fitful, but overall consistent over time. So, hard to say whether increases are a "normal" response to market demand and cost drivers or different pricing philosophy.Chris Seiber wrote:
Good points, the time horizon on the ROI can be different depending on the ownership. As far as moving pricing up to reflect market demand, you see that from a John Alban, Tom Dehlinger or Kevin Harvey too. That's not a criticism of any of those three in the least - they make good products that people will pay a lot of money for, and they deserve the money they can get for them. But I can imagine that if Alban had been owned by some PE group or had been bought by a large corporation, many people would have perceived those same big price hikes in a very different and less favorable way.
(BTW, my question mark after "private equity" that triggered this discussion was partly an indicator of jest, and also to note I wasn't sure thta was a driver, although I think it's a reasonable question to ask.)
Andrew H e i m e r t
Kosta Browne SV Offering
i've been buying since the '03 vintage and just got my first 4 Barrel offer
I still buy about a case a year because of the consistency, great folks and my non-wine geek friends love when we share
I still buy about a case a year because of the consistency, great folks and my non-wine geek friends love when we share
Brett Cyril Little (AKA BC)
- Jody Smith
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
2001 and you're not in the LOD mafia?!ericleehall wrote:I've been buying their wines directly since 2003 (the 2001 Vintage) and I don't think I've over been offered the 4 barrel..
Michael Browne gave me one once, and it was very nice tho.....
- Evan Pontoriero
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Well the fruit prices are going crazy. Latest rumor was 9K/ton for Gaps so right there you have a $90 wine. We bailed from a vineyard where our contract went from 4.2K to 6.2K after the older contract expired. BAH! $6. Imagine asking my clients to swallow a $20 YOY price increase.
Fogline Vineyards
Petaluma Gap
Petaluma Gap
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Kosta Browne SV Offering
Speaking of the KB 4 Barrel ... If your allocation was reduced last year, was it restored to the previous amount this year ?
- Chris Seiber
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