TN: Is blind tasting possible?

Several wine lovers gathered last week to test the theory of one of our group (note: not your correspondent): that blind tasting, fundamentally, was bullshit. Everyone was assigned a region and was assigned to bring a representative bottle from that region - i.e., no ringers. Then we tasted single blind to region - i.e. we knew which regions were represented but not which bottles. We voted both on region and rank before the reveal.

The results were clear. Two in our group IDed every region correctly, and everyone who tried got 3 or more correct. The group ‘consensus’ votes were 100% correct. There was strong agreement in ranking on the top 2 wines - the Cathiard was 1st or 2nd for all but one taster.

As an aside, even with 8 folks sharing, assiduous spitting, and plenty of food to recharge, my palate was absolutely shot by the end of the evening. I continue to question the value of tasting so many wines in a sitting - I’d vastly prefer to have sat down with half this number of wines, with larger pours, over a full evening to watch them evolve.

A blind opener wine. Jaws dropped on the reveal:
2004 François Raveneau Chablis Grand Cru Valmur - France, Burgundy, Chablis, Chablis Grand Cru (8/14/2015)
I found this quite oxidative, to the point where blind, I thought it was a Jura chardonnay. Lemony, briny, but also rather pungently smelling of almond paste and grass. Some butter, some oak, not a ton. I was pretty convinced that this was Gahier Chardonnay with a few years on it. Oops. Best part of this wine was the label. Only one person correctly identified this as chablis, and I suspect its on the verge of ox-ing. (87 pts.)


A flight of mature whites. The difference was obvious, and neither wine was dead:
1981 Louis Latour Meursault 1er Cru - France, Burgundy, Côte de Beaune, Meursault 1er Cru (8/14/2015)
Old, but not dead. Some chalk, butter, apple, just there’s some oxidation, but it just holds together. Nice and long. Very obviously chardonnay. Has a hint of that old white burg sweetness. (87 pts.)
1974 Les Plantiers du Haut-Brion - France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan (8/14/2015)
I thought this was lovely, though obviously quite old. The nose is rather spectacular, with honey, pineapple, earwax, lilies, vanilla and some VA. The palate is less exciting - sort of unctuous and almost sweet, with long acidity, but a touch flat. But this is just wonderful to sniff and gives a lot of pleasure - a wonderful example of aged white Bordeaux. Very divisive wine - this was WOTN for some and undrinkable for others (90 pts.)

The main red flight:
2009 Thierry Allemand Cornas Reynard - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Cornas (8/17/2015)
Spectacular wine - purple, blackberry/cassis fruit, some black pepper, terrific acidity and concentration - electric in the mouth with a full, rich midpalate cut by the great acidity; long, mineral finish. Mmmm. Blind, I thought this was an extremely classy, old-school Bordeaux; this was perhaps the least reductive N. Rhone syrah I’ve ever had and drinks terrifically in a young-wine way, thought with obvious stuffing to age. For me, the clear WOTN over 9 other blind wines. Group’s 2nd. (92 pts.)
2012 Sylvain Cathiard Chambolle-Musigny Les Clos De L’orme - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Chambolle-Musigny (8/17/2015)
Classic burgundy nose of red pinot fruit, a hint of whole cluster and some judicious, low char oak. Light bodied, fragrant, silky. I’m sure this would age, but why would you? It’s better as-is than most aged wines. As delightful as a young wine gets, if perhaps a bit unserious. Easily the group WOTN. (89 pts.)
2012 Domaine Bernard Baudry Chinon La Croix Boissée - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon (8/17/2015)
Reeks of tobacco and red currant fruit. IDed this blind as Loire. It’s not green - the fruit is quite ripe - but it’s still a touch dilute and the (lack of) concentration doesn’t really stand up to the grainy tannin, which structures the wine more than the atypically low acid. Something about this bottle is a touch flat, it’s hard to put your finger on but it’s just not that great. The barest hint of Band-Aid but it doesn’t detract. Good enough but not that great. Surprised to learn what this was on the reveal as I had pegged it as something more in the $15-20 range; “are you sure this isn’t the grezeaux”? (86 pts.)
2008 Château Gloria - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien (8/17/2015)
Blind, I thought this was inexpensive, traditionally made N. Rhone. Rustic, a touch green, even a touch reduced; lean and mean. Purple. Uninteresting. (85 pts.)
2002 R. López de Heredia Rioja Reserva Viña Tondonia - Spain, La Rioja, La Rioja Alta, Rioja (8/17/2015)
Very dark fruit, tarry, with lots and lots of VA, well over my threshold where I can no longer enjoy the wine. Structured and rustic. I guessed piedmont or rioja, but strongly disliked the bottle and thought this showed more ‘rustic winemaking’ then any varietal character or terroir. Yuck. (83 pts.)
1999 Bruno Giacosa Barolo Falletto di Serralunga d’Alba - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (8/17/2015)
The problem with buying Italian wine from the cheapest source on W-S is that 2/3rd of the bottle are oxidized or heat damaged, as this one was. Gross and unidentifiable as anything other than shot wine. Last place. NR (flawed)
2004 Corra Cabernet Sauvignon - USA, California, Napa Valley (8/14/2015)
Lush, plummy, chocolatey, soft wine. Some herbiness and dust. This is quite nice in its style - it’s not raisined, not overly alcoholic, and has some complexity, but its style is not really my style. Would benefit from more back end structure, and I can’t see this improving from where it is today. Apparently this comes from Las Piedras vineyard and the pedigree shows. (89 pts.)
A final wine - “whoops, we forgot to pour this”:
2013 Alzinger Riesling Smaragd Loibner Loibenberg - Austria, Niederösterreich, Wachau (8/17/2015)
Citrusy. not as grassy as a mosel Riesling or as full as a Nahe, a touch of sugar but just that, well balanced, doesn’t really excite but correctly made. (87 pts.)

I don’t get your post. In what way does your tasting show “that blind tasting, fundamentally, was bullshit.” What aspect of blind tasting do you claim is BS?

In particular, you write “Two in our group IDed every region correctly” then for one wine " Only one person correctly identified this as chablis".

I think we pretty clearly demonstrated that the person’s theory was wrong. That’s the point. Several of us disagreed with his theory, and then we demonstrated why it doesn’t work.

The Chablis wasn’t part of the single blind tasting, unlike the other wines tasted in flights later. It was just a sipper handed to folks out of a decanter as they walked in.

So you proved that blind tasting was not BS? By showing that the group could guess the region of each wine by majority vote?

Not only was our skeptic convinced this would not happen, he lost money betting folks in our group that their “3 most confident” guesses were wrong. I think for nearly everyone they were correct.

It was confusing to me because “blind tasting” has so many meanings. Most commonly, I think of blind tasting several wines from the same region in order to fairly evaluate them.

You and me both. And yet the challenge presented was what it was.

From your rating I take it you’ve finally tried a white Bordeaux you like?

I’m lost on why your tasting somehow demonstrates that blind tasting is BS. I don’t even understand what premise you think blind tasting sets up that is BS. But if anything backs up the notion that blind tasting can be tricky, confusing a 2009 Allemand with any Bordeaux should do it.

Yup! I’ve been searching for older bottles (of white bdx and Semillon generally) and I’m starting to suspect I just like them with 15+ years of age on them to bring out the honeyed aspect.

I think our tasting demonstrates that blind tasting is not BS, since the group consensus was 100% accurate with respect to region.

I was going to say…

What was the reasoning behind why blind tasting is bullshit?

He believed that no one could really tell the differences between wines blind - basically, he accepts the academic studies that purport to show that there is no real skill in telling good wines from bad wines, or wines from different regions from each other.

i think this just proves that for your tasting group blind tasting is bullshit. Trying to extrapolate this to the rest of the population is indeed bullshit.

I love when they perform those bullshit blind tasting with subjects who have virtually no experience when it comes to drinking anything above the overtly fruity/ manufactured wines that occupy supermarket shelves. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, just go to Youtube and type in something along the lines of “Is expensive wine better?” Anyone who geeks out over wine should be able to draw a good laugh.

Before everyone slams David, he was not on the “it’s bullshit” side of the argument.

??

I get that now. And yes, it was spelled out in his OP, but not very clearly.

i dunno, it was in the first sentence, seemed pretty clear