Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?

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Mark B
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Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?

#1 Post by Mark B » June 4th, 2015, 7:50 pm

The full retail prices I'm seeing across the board in my neck of the woods for the village-level wines seem to start at $40 these days. It seems to me that Chablis is still the relative value play for white Burg in the under $50 category.
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#2 Post by Craig G » June 4th, 2015, 8:09 pm

Some people buy Montrachet for that.
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#3 Post by Mark B » June 4th, 2015, 8:16 pm

Craig G wrote:Some people buy Montrachet for that.
Truth. [bow.gif]
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Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?

#4 Post by alan weinberg » June 4th, 2015, 8:17 pm

it's getting worse every vintage--despite the Euro weakness.

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#5 Post by Mark B » June 4th, 2015, 8:20 pm

alan weinberg wrote:it's getting worse every vintage--despite the Euro weakness.
What gives?
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#6 Post by M Mager » June 4th, 2015, 8:47 pm

Mark B wrote:
alan weinberg wrote:it's getting worse every vintage--despite the Euro weakness.
What gives?
Enough people pay it...

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#7 Post by R. Frankel » June 4th, 2015, 8:53 pm

Supply and demand. The former is stingy, the latter exploding.
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#8 Post by Rick Dalia » June 4th, 2015, 8:58 pm

Maybe, but one could argue that village Meursault far exceeds expectations for entry level Chardonnay. For what's in the glass, $40 is spot on, IMO.

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#9 Post by AlbertH » June 4th, 2015, 9:24 pm

Craig G wrote:Some people buy Montrachet for that.
This is possible?
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#10 Post by c fu » June 4th, 2015, 9:39 pm

AlbertH wrote:
Craig G wrote:Some people buy Montrachet for that.
This is possible?
pretty sure he's making fun of Mark getting some montrachet due to a price flub
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#11 Post by john stimson » June 4th, 2015, 10:08 pm

you just have to find something else to replace it. Chablis is certainly one choice, although I don't know how long that will last, as it's a relatively small place. Dry chenin blanc for me is becoming a more frequent substitute.

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#12 Post by Chris Seiber » June 4th, 2015, 11:45 pm

There is very little decent village Meursault, Chassagne and Puligny out there for under $50.

My feeling is that the riper, lower acid, earlier drinking style which (just in my opinion) is the main culprit in premox is also continuing to strengthen demand and pricing. And that is why producers show little interest and no urgency about premox.

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#13 Post by Scott Brunson » June 5th, 2015, 3:38 am

Chris Seiber wrote:There is very little decent village Meursault, Chassagne and Puligny out there for under $50.

My feeling is that the riper, lower acid, earlier drinking style which (just in my opinion) is the main culprit in premox is also continuing to strengthen demand and pricing. And that is why producers show little interest and no urgency about premox.
Try Paul Pernot Puligny Chris. It's usually a great QPR, but right at the 50 buck mark.
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#14 Post by David Henry » June 5th, 2015, 4:35 am

Try this, an excellent Meursault based Bourgogne Blanc: Dupont-Fahn Bourgogne Blanc Chaumes Des Perrieres. Usually sells for $30 to $35/bottle. It is from a vineyard that was declassified from Meursault to Bourgogne level because some topsoil was added. Hence the name, which roughly translates to the Stubbles of Perrieres.

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#15 Post by StevenB » June 5th, 2015, 4:48 am

Meursault, like Puligny and Chassagne fetches such prices these days. Can't change it. My cheaper alternatives, which hardly ever "work" the same way, are St. Aubin for a Puligny, Santenay blanc for a Chassagne blanc and Auxey Duresses or to a lesser extent St. Romain for a Meursault. Or a Bourgogne Blanc from good producers. I'd rather drink a Bourgogne Blanc from Roulot than an unexciting Meursault Village from a not so great producer at the same price point. Other less expensive alternatives such as Chablis or wines from the Chalonnais or Mâconnais are not really a substitute for me because they taste differently to me in very many (but not all) cases.
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#16 Post by AlexS » June 5th, 2015, 9:25 am

StevenB wrote:Meursault, like Puligny and Chassagne fetches such prices these days. Can't change it. My cheaper alternatives, which hardly ever "work" the same way, are St. Aubin for a Puligny, Santenay blanc for a Chassagne blanc and Auxey Duresses or to a lesser extent St. Romain for a Meursault. Or a Bourgogne Blanc from good producers. I'd rather drink a Bourgogne Blanc from Roulot than an unexciting Meursault Village from a not so great producer at the same price point. Other less expensive alternatives such as Chablis or wines from the Chalonnais or Mâconnais are not really a substitute for me because they taste differently to me in very many (but not all) cases.
Good advice.
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#17 Post by Nathan Smyth » June 5th, 2015, 9:34 am

Mark B wrote:Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?
Since the Federal Reserve started inventing $1 Trillion in fake money every year, and the Top 1% were handed more free [albeit fake] money than they could ever dream of spending.

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#18 Post by John Morris » June 5th, 2015, 9:36 am

Mark B wrote:Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?
Ever since premox. You have to pay up for that possibility.
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#19 Post by Thomas Keim » June 5th, 2015, 9:57 am

To be Frank -

30 years ago, a great California Chardonnay sold for $15 a bottle. A village Meursault from a good producer sold fore $25-$30 a bottle - 30 years ago!

Today, that same California Chardonnay is selling for double the price - and a village Meursault is selling for around $40 a bottle.

So in essence, the Meursault producers have not kept up with the times -
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#20 Post by AlbertH » June 5th, 2015, 9:58 am

c fu wrote:
AlbertH wrote:
Craig G wrote:Some people buy Montrachet for that.
This is possible?
pretty sure he's making fun of Mark getting some montrachet due to a price flub

Aha, gotcha. I was gonna say...

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#21 Post by BrianMarshall » June 5th, 2015, 10:08 am

Rick Dalia wrote:Maybe, but one could argue that village Meursault far exceeds expectations for entry level Chardonnay. For what's in the glass, $40 is spot on, IMO.
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#22 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » June 5th, 2015, 10:58 am

Thomas Keim wrote:To be Frank -

30 years ago, a great California Chardonnay sold for $15 a bottle. A village Meursault from a good producer sold fore $25-$30 a bottle - 30 years ago!

Today, that same California Chardonnay is selling for double the price - and a village Meursault is selling for around $40 a bottle.

So in essence, the Meursault producers have not kept up with the times -
Though I have no idea re: the CA side of this statement....a village Meursault (or Puligny) has never been cheap since I started paying attention in the '80s. Everything is relative, of course, and the prices from that era seem cheap in hindsight. Of course, people were then saying the same thing about the prices then-current in the '80s vis a vis those in the '60s. I think this nostalgia for lower pricing is a never ending phenomenon. The past always seems better, though it wasn't. [soap.gif]

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#23 Post by Mark B » June 5th, 2015, 12:22 pm

What kind of prices are you guys seeing for current vintages? $40 is for no name producers, more like $50 for anything that's well-known.
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#24 Post by Chris Seiber » June 5th, 2015, 1:28 pm

I agree with Mark, the notion of abundant good $40 Meursault is not something I'm finding. If Thomas or someone wants to post a gaggle of links to available buys like that, we'd all love to see it, and I'd be most happy to have been wrong on this point.

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#25 Post by c fu » June 5th, 2015, 2:16 pm

pierre yves colin morey narvaux, i've gotten a few offers on it at $50. That's a fantastic wine at the price.
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#26 Post by Eric Lundblad » June 5th, 2015, 3:28 pm

Who has the PYCM narvaux for $50? Lowest I've seen it for is $65...or $5200 for a 6L:

http://www.etcwineshops.com/wines/pierr ... age-2011-0

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#27 Post by Joe G a l e w s k i » June 5th, 2015, 3:50 pm

Rick Dalia wrote:Maybe, but one could argue that village Meursault far exceeds expectations for entry level Chardonnay. For what's in the glass, $40 is spot on, IMO.
It can be, but there's also a lot of duds. That's Burgundy.

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#28 Post by Warren Taranow » June 5th, 2015, 4:59 pm

Mark B wrote:The full retail prices I'm seeing across the board in my neck of the woods for the village-level wines seem to start at $40 these days. It seems to me that Chablis is still the relative value play for white Burg in the under $50 category.
[whistle.gif]
Holy crap, I just proved you right! After a beautiful bottle of 2007 Pierre Morey Meursault Les Tessons with dinner last night, I tried to refill newer vintages. The price has tripled, averaging $99!!! I paid $33 for the '07, and it doesn't seem that long ago. [shock.gif]

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#29 Post by Scott Brunson » June 5th, 2015, 5:15 pm

c fu wrote:pierre yves colin morey narvaux, i've gotten a few offers on it at $50. That's a fantastic wine at the price.
great call.
I've received a few offers at or near 50 bucks.
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#30 Post by Gus Johnson » June 5th, 2015, 5:34 pm

Scott Brunson wrote:
c fu wrote:pierre yves colin morey narvaux, i've gotten a few offers on it at $50. That's a fantastic wine at the price.
great call.
I've received a few offers at or near 50 bucks.

Can these sources be named here or at least PM'ed? I don't buy in quantity so one more email recipient will not spoil an offer :-)

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#31 Post by Rick Dalia » June 5th, 2015, 6:49 pm

I was thinking maybe F Jobard's En la Barre would come in at below $50 but quick search hitting around $60.

When I think about it, though, it's no different from village bottles of rouge in the Cote d' Nuits. Villages from the various communes are well above $50 for the most part.

I rarely regret what I paid for a good bottle of white burgundy, though.

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#32 Post by Eric Lundblad » June 5th, 2015, 7:40 pm

I don't have any data to answer/support this...but I'm wondering if these are going up because folks are moving down the white burg hierarchy due to premox (from Grand to 1er, and 1er to Village)? If true, seems like Meursault would esp be affected, cuz I think M kicks ass :)
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#33 Post by Jeremy Holmes » June 5th, 2015, 11:03 pm

Coche entry level Meursault was $1k at Le Bernardin when we dined there recently.
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#34 Post by Martin Steinley » June 5th, 2015, 11:18 pm

Today, I believe that good entry level Meursault starts at $60ish. If one can find PYCM Narvaux at $50, that is a really nice deal. Also, if one can find Pierre Morey Bourgogne, which should sell for about $30-35, that is a wine to buy. It is declassified Meursault, and easily passes as good villages-level Meursault.
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#35 Post by Eric Lundblad » June 5th, 2015, 11:43 pm

This might be a bit off topic, but I'm fairly unfamiliar with Auxey Duresses whites and am wondering how/if they compare to Meursault wines (in terms of balance and style/flavorProfile/etc)?
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#36 Post by Craig G » June 6th, 2015, 7:25 am

Jeremy Holmes wrote:Coche entry level Meursault was $1k at Le Bernardin when we dined there recently.
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#37 Post by StevenB » June 6th, 2015, 7:59 am

Eric Lundblad wrote:This might be a bit off topic, but I'm fairly unfamiliar with Auxey Duresses whites and am wondering how/if they compare to Meursault wines (in terms of balance and style/flavorProfile/etc)?
Judging from the ones I know from producers who also make Meursault (those being Boisson-Vadot, Jean Philippe Fichet, Benjamin Leroux) I'd say it's roughly similar in profile to Meursault, maybe a little less intense. Alain Gras for example produces a different style of Auxey Duresses blanc - lighter, not very oaky, not very exciting either. But for my taste, the Auxey Duresses blanc from the above said producers are similar to their Meursaults, just a few steps down the ladder.
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#38 Post by Warren Taranow » February 18th, 2016, 12:13 pm

2014 Patrick Javillier Meursault Tillets - $44.99 at Vins Rare.
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#39 Post by Gerhard P. » February 18th, 2016, 12:20 pm

Craig G wrote:Some people buy Montrachet for that.
Not joking: I once (5 y ago) bought a Montrachet for roughly 50,- ... it tasted like 60,- ... so a good business !
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#40 Post by m. ristev » February 18th, 2016, 12:45 pm

binnys has vincent dancer meursault les corbins for a hair over $40. perhaps he is unknown here but this is not the case in paris, not to mention this is nearly the same price one would expect to pay for such a bottle abroad. there are plenty of deals to be had, you just have to look outside the hyped producers. and just because someone has a reputation in export markets does not mean they do domestically, and vice versa.
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#41 Post by Jürgen Steinke » February 18th, 2016, 1:09 pm

Actually I had a superb Bourgogne white today. Domaine Dujac 2007. Unbelievably good.

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#42 Post by Chuck Miller » February 18th, 2016, 1:20 pm

John Morris wrote:
Mark B wrote:Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?
Ever since premox. You have to pay up for that possibility.

That statement makes no sense whatsoever.
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#43 Post by dcornutt » February 18th, 2016, 1:20 pm

David Henry wrote:Try this, an excellent Meursault based Bourgogne Blanc: Dupont-Fahn Bourgogne Blanc Chaumes Des Perrieres. Usually sells for $30 to $35/bottle. It is from a vineyard that was declassified from Meursault to Bourgogne level because some topsoil was added. Hence the name, which roughly translates to the Stubbles of Perrieres.
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#44 Post by Todd F r e n c h » February 18th, 2016, 2:38 pm

Interesting question - I thought of it recently but don't know enough about Meursault to bring up the topic as Mark has. I wondered the same because I recently had some of what I considered among the top Chardonnay experiences I've ever had - 2011 Vincent Dancer Meursault Les Corbins. Binny's had it for $50, and I was surprised Meursault was $50. Then I looked to see that elsewhere it's priced closer to $60...so I bought a 6-pack!
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#45 Post by c fu » February 18th, 2016, 3:11 pm

Todd F r e n c h wrote:Interesting question - I thought of it recently but don't know enough about Meursault to bring up the topic as Mark has. I wondered the same because I recently had some of what I considered among the top Chardonnay experiences I've ever had - 2011 Vincent Dancer Meursault Les Corbins. Binny's had it for $50, and I was surprised Meursault was $50. Then I looked to see that elsewhere it's priced closer to $60...so I bought a 6-pack!
I feel there are deals to be had, especially the 2011 vintage. Last August (2015) Milton Road Trading Company in Napa (Cameron's spot) had 2011 Henri Germain Charmes for $60 a bottle. Absolute ridiculous wine at the price. Just gotta keep your head on a swivel.
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#46 Post by Morten Båtbukt » February 18th, 2016, 3:34 pm

Don't know of it's availability in the US but Chavy-Chouet has excellent Meursault at what should be $35-ish over there (that's approximately where it's at here now), and their Genevrieres is about $50. Very good quality Meursault from an up and coming producer, but of course not on par with the best.

Also, I see Roulot BB is fetching absurd prices in the US now, same with PYCM. Perhaps harder to find here, but Roulot is about $30 and PYCM about the same when you find it. Suppose that's difference between allocated but cheaper and freely available but expencive.

Othe excellent buys are A. Jobard BB at about $30, Taupenot-Merme St. Romain at about the same price and a few Côte Chalonnaise wines. There are a few excellent Rully (particularly the 1er crus) out there now. One favorite of mine is Pascal Clements Rully 1er Cru Rebourcé at about $20-25.

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#47 Post by Robert Panzer » February 18th, 2016, 4:06 pm

Latour Giraud Meursault villages '14 $49.
Narvaux '14 $59.
That with 35% of a regular crop, for OUTSTANDING quality. Top press to boot.
How cheap would you realistically hope to pay for good quality meursault villages?
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#48 Post by J a y H a c k » February 18th, 2016, 5:43 pm

Chuck Miller wrote:
John Morris wrote:
Mark B wrote:Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?
Ever since premox. You have to pay up for that possibility.

That statement makes no sense whatsoever.
He forgot the sarcasm emoji.
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#49 Post by Howard Cooper » February 18th, 2016, 5:56 pm

Buy PYCM St Aubin.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Andrew Hamilton
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Joined: June 28th, 2012, 8:36 pm
Location: Perth, Western Austalia

Since when was entry level Meursault so damn expensive?

#50 Post by Andrew Hamilton » February 18th, 2016, 5:59 pm

Jeremy Holmes wrote:Coche entry level Meursault was $1k at Le Bernardin when we dined there recently.
[shock.gif]
Don't be an idiot schmelt. It doesn't count unless you go bardownski.

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