Recommendation for 1 bottle of Burgundy < $500

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zack harris
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#1 Post by zack harris » May 22nd, 2015, 12:17 pm

A very good friend, who has professed a liking to Burgundy, is getting married and I'd like to buy a bottle of wine to open with him and celebrate. Given that my experience with Burgundy is limited to the "lesser" village wines and a few 1er crus, I'm hopeful my fellow Berserkers can suggest a bottle under $500 that is in a relatively good drinking window. Thanks.

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#2 Post by Michael O'Brien » May 22nd, 2015, 12:20 pm

Lot of choices. White or red? If you are a JJ Buckley customer, your rep can send you a list of what they have. I found quite a few with prices at or below the Wine-Searcher Pro low.
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#3 Post by zack harris » May 22nd, 2015, 12:30 pm

Apologies for not being terribly clear, looking for red Burgundy.

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#4 Post by David_K » May 22nd, 2015, 12:54 pm

Sorry, none. They are all over $500 now.
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#5 Post by Markus S » May 22nd, 2015, 1:03 pm

David_K wrote:Sorry, none. They are all over $500 now.
Yep, that train has left the station. They are all excessibe now.
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#6 Post by J. Ashourian » May 22nd, 2015, 1:39 pm

1999 Dujac Echezeaux is something special and can be had for around $500.
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#7 Post by George Chadwick » May 22nd, 2015, 1:43 pm

Whatever you get, make sure it's old enough to be fully expressed or it's a waste of money. That's more important than the wine's rating. A well stored 1993 or 1996 for $80 might taste a lot better right now than a $499 2010.

I'd get a 1999 Rousseau Ruchottes. But because of my own preferences, not because I think it's the best buy.

Maybe a magnum of Lambrays Lambrays.

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#8 Post by T. Altmayer » May 22nd, 2015, 1:46 pm

Woodland Hills has a magnum of 2001 Lambrays for around $450. I've had it and it is drinking well right now and I think a magnum format makes it more festive.

[Posted at the same time as George, great minds . . . .]
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#9 Post by David Coffey » May 22nd, 2015, 2:07 pm

1996 Clos de Tart is available at JJ Buckley and Sokolin for under $300. It is in its wheelhouse now. Like the Lambrays Lambrays mentioned above (I like the magnum idea btw), it is a monopole Grand Cru meaning there is no other producer. Clive Coates has a piece on his website about it with notes from a 2010 tasting that included the '96 if you are interested.
http://www.clive-coates.com/content/tas ... os-de-tart

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#10 Post by George Chadwick » May 22nd, 2015, 3:39 pm

David Coffey wrote:1996 Clos de Tart is available at JJ Buckley and Sokolin for under $300. It is in its wheelhouse now. Like the Lambrays Lambrays mentioned above (I like the magnum idea btw), it is a monopole Grand Cru meaning there is no other producer. Clive Coates has a piece on his website about it with notes from a 2010 tasting that included the '96 if you are interested.
http://www.clive-coates.com/content/tas ... os-de-tart
Yes, giving a gift that's "the best of its kind" (including monopole) rather than "I got their third best bottling because the two best were over $500" seems more special.

Here are for me the "cult" Burgundies (not Leroy, DRC, Roumier, or Rousseau) IN MY MIND at least, not necessarily in the real world:

De Montille Vosne Romane Malconsorts Cuvee Christiane. The grapes are entirely within the La Tache rectangle. It's either similar to the regular Malconsorts or it isn't. It's either La Tache quality or it isn't. Depends on what you read. You might find one for just under $500. Good luck finding one that's ready.

Chateau de la Tour Clos de Vougeot Hommage a Morin...juts under $500?
I love love love their Vielles Vignes which is around $180. These are shot berries Vielles Vignes, the Yquem of Vougeot.

I think there is now a Faiveley that is similar, a microproduction selection of their Corton...perfect wine, I'll guess around $500, drink in 2100...Cuvee Something? Hommage Something?

The above three are ultra rare, underpriced, prestigious, he'll never see a bottle again, and too young LOL.

Anything Gaudichots, the ones that weren't already absorbed into Grand Cru vineyards. Composed of miscellaneous tiny plots around Grande Rue and la Tache. The problem is, the ones that are great, you can't find, and the ones readily available for $250, aren't worth it...unless you get very lucky on the high-QPR scale, like Potel Gaudichots 2002 or any Le Moine Gaudichots.

Arnoux Suchots.

Roumier Bonnes Mares in an off vintage, like 2007.

And the above suggestions in earlier posts. More and more I think you should go magnum. But if not:

_______________________________________

If you don't need ultra rare/ monopole, look at various bottlings of Chambertin Clos de Beze and Chambolle Musigny Les Amoureuses. Price and quality all over the place, from $100 to $1500. They're almost all terrific. Jadot 2005 Beze, a perfect wine, would be a terrific choice if you let it breathe for a week or two.

Roty Vielles Vignes Charmes Chambertin, the oldest vines in all of Burgundy. The older the vintage of Roty, the older the average age of the vines, because he's been replanting. The good thing about this wine for your purposes is, even when it's way too young, there's so much dark fruit that it's still terrific to drink. The Dunn Howell Mountain of Burgundy IMO. I've never had an older one.

That's my entire list. Things like Ponsot or Dujac Clos de la Roche or the rarer Clos St. Denis are as good as any of the above wines but they don't have a unique story attached.

Don't buy a Leroy or a DRC that's under $500.

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#11 Post by Nick Gangas » May 22nd, 2015, 5:39 pm

How old does your friend like his wine ?

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#12 Post by scamhi » May 22nd, 2015, 5:58 pm

great answer George
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#13 Post by john stimson » May 22nd, 2015, 7:34 pm

I'd get two really good bottles of $250 burg. We all know that the failure rate for these wines, esp for wines in the 80's and 90's is substantial (eg >10% corked, oxidized etc.) How bad would it be to open a great bottle that's corked? You can get a pretty darned good wine for $250, and if you have a back-up, you won't sour the whole deal with a bad bottle.

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#14 Post by Gerhard P. » May 23rd, 2015, 1:18 am

David_K wrote:Sorry, none. They are all over $500 now.
No idea if he is kidding, but
just for instance:

http://www.flickingerwines.com/growers/ ... 79.00.aspx

... and there are still fine mature Burgs between 100-200 to be found, if you don´t buy labels only ....

e.g.
http://www.graileysfinewines.com/1995-j ... ml/dp/4679
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#15 Post by Mark Golodetz » May 23rd, 2015, 5:20 am

If you want to know what a mature Grand Cru Burgundy tastes like, I would buy a few bottles of various Jadot Grand Crus from 1997. While there are a ton of insipid 1997s out there, Jadot really did an amazing job in '97, they are cheap as old socks, and you can have your pick of several grand crus.

Another sleeper is Damoy Chambertin Clos de Beze from 1993. Apparently SF Wine consulting has a bottle for $229, and Neal is a good guy to deal with.
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#16 Post by A. So » May 23rd, 2015, 6:07 am

David Coffey wrote:Like the Lambrays Lambrays mentioned above (I like the magnum idea btw), it is a monopole Grand Cru meaning there is no other producer.
Clos des Lambrays is not a monopole of Domaine des Lambrays. Taupenot-Merme owns vines in that vineyard.
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#17 Post by todd waldmann » May 23rd, 2015, 7:10 am

Another vote for the magnum of '01 Lambrays. Because Lambrays lacks a bit of the caché that many other producers have, it is a relative bargain. And it ages very well. As you can tell from my avatar, I'm a fan of aged Lambrays in magnum....
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#18 Post by craig v » May 23rd, 2015, 7:52 am

Every Burgundy lover should have Armand Rousseau on their bucket list. For me, its my favorite even over DRC which I love too. I noticed you can buy a '95 Armand Rousseau Clos des Ruchottes Monopole for $400 at Flickinger. Ruchottes, for me is almost the equal of the Beze & Chambertin and ahead of the CSJ. So, with $500 you can try a Burgundy great in ready to go mode. There might, be some other vintages of this wine still sub $500 around too.
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#19 Post by Gary Schulte » May 23rd, 2015, 9:25 am

Mt Carmel wines has a 1996 AF Gros Richebourg for a little over $400. That should be a very nice Burgundy and close to ready.

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#20 Post by Gerhard P. » May 23rd, 2015, 10:18 am

A. So wrote:
David Coffey wrote:Like the Lambrays Lambrays mentioned above (I like the magnum idea btw), it is a monopole Grand Cru meaning there is no other producer.
Clos des Lambrays is not a monopole of Domaine des Lambrays. Taupenot-Merme owns vines in that vineyard.
Right!
See here:

Image

BTW: not a bad wine either ... I had the 1998 a year ago, and it was really outstanding (but not great).
Though the label is not a real beauty.
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#21 Post by Thomas Keim » May 23rd, 2015, 10:40 am

Go with something with a little bottle age - and from a fabled vintage - '64 or '69 would be perfect -

LEROY usually has a lot of late releases on the market that are in fine shape -

Here is a quick peak at what's available nationally from the '69 vintage

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/leroy/1969
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#22 Post by Nathan Smyth » May 23rd, 2015, 11:19 am

The correct answer is the 1996 Rene Engel Grands Echezeaux:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/engel ... zeaux/1996

Unfortunately, you'll have to figure out how to get it back across the Atlantic Ocean.

At least on free Wine-Searcher.

But for $500, you should first purchase Wine Searcher Pro.

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#23 Post by David Coffey » May 24th, 2015, 12:00 pm

I stand corrected about Clos des Lambrays. I should have checked my facts. The Taupenot-Merme bottling must be very small production based on their minuscule ownership. Thank you.

I second the Mt. Carmel (in Hamden, CT) mention by Gary Schulte. They actually have a pretty good selection of older red Burgundy and other wines, and their wines are in great condition.

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#24 Post by Nick Gangas » May 24th, 2015, 7:46 pm

Ok solved it for you. 93 Mungeret Gibourg Ruchottes Chambertin at the Wine House in California. 93 is in the zone now.

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#25 Post by zack harris » May 25th, 2015, 6:00 pm

Many thanks for all the suggestions, I ended up purchasing a bottle of the '01 Lambrays and '96 Clos de Tart. I know absolutely nothing about either of these wines other than what's been posted in this thread, but am happy to go in blind based on the advice of such passionate people who clearly have more experience than I. Thanks again.

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#26 Post by George Chadwick » May 25th, 2015, 11:34 pm

Zack in the Cote de Nuits there are five regions (villages?), just about all of the great red Burgundies are from these five. Vosne Romanee, Gevrey Chambertin, Morey St. Denis, Nuits St. Georges, and Chambolle Musigny. To me Clos de Tart and Lambrays are a great one-two punch because they are both monopoles (or in Lambrays case very close to it) in Morey St. Denis and I think nothing else in Morey St. Denis is a monopole.

I think this is a better choice than any one bottle.

I guess the Vosne equivalent would be Romanee Conti and La Tache. You should have done that instead, actually, and a bottle of each would have been under your limit of $15,000, just barely. Oh it wasn't $15,000? Never mind.

Let them breathe! To me red Burgundy does not act like any other wine with regard to air. They can be tired old musty and thin upon opening and two hours later all this incredible red fruit and earth come out of nowhere, time and again.

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#27 Post by A Songeur » May 26th, 2015, 1:23 am

Not sure about Clos de Tart (very specific style) nor Clos des Lambrays (excellent wine...but not a top grand cru really). If you avoid DRC and the like, you may get a Romanee St Vivant which would be vastly superior for instance.
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#28 Post by Nathan Smyth » May 26th, 2015, 9:27 am

zack harris wrote: '01 Lambrays and '96 Clos de Tart.
Bummer.

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#29 Post by zack harris » May 26th, 2015, 11:21 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
zack harris wrote: '01 Lambrays and '96 Clos de Tart.
Bummer.
So you know, I investigated every single suggestion made, including your 1996 Rene Engel Grands Echezeaux, but shipping a single bottle across the Atlantic might well be as much as the bottle itself, and certainly well over my $500 budget. But I do appreciate the recommendation and will keep an eye out for this producer.

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#30 Post by Nathan Smyth » May 26th, 2015, 11:56 am

Well, on the plus side, maybe you won't fall in love with Burgundy, which will save you a ton of money and time and heartache.

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#31 Post by David Coffey » May 26th, 2015, 12:21 pm

Zack, I am sure you and your friend will enjoy those two bottles. Both are excellent wines by any standard. And by all means, follow George Chadwick's advice on letting them breathe. Decant them well in advance if you can. FYI, this is Clive Coates "ten years after" update on the 2001 Burgundy vintage:
http://www.clive-coates.com/tastings/vi ... n-years-on
As you can see, the Lambrays fared quite well.

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#32 Post by Thomas Keim » May 26th, 2015, 12:27 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
zack harris wrote: '01 Lambrays and '96 Clos de Tart.
Bummer.
No kidding - those are just going to be a total pain to drink...

But actually, the bummer is posting a question on the board looking for Burgundy under $500 and people immediately jump in recommended ultra rare bottles selling for much, much more than the request asked for -
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#33 Post by Mike During » May 26th, 2015, 1:56 pm

Having has the 01 Lambrays not so long ago it is a great wine. It would be my choice by a long shot.
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#34 Post by George Chadwick » May 28th, 2015, 10:13 pm

In retrospect I don't think you could have made a better choice. Romanee St Vivant can be crappy and the bottlings from reliable producers are costly.

If you forget to let these wines breathe we will come to your house and kill you.

Decanting versus leaving the.cork out for five hours is a controversial choice. I'd err on the side of caution and just open the bottles five hours in advance. That way if it's inadequate air you can watch the wine open up in the glass and down the bottle.

Someone here (Levenberg?)who taught me to like 1983 burgs also gave me terrific advice I then failed to follow and completely wasted a bottle of 1976 Musigny and 1983 Suchots. That is, old Burgundy sediment is not like young Cabernet sediment. It's nasty. Stand the bottles up for at least four days before opening. I keep forgetting.

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#35 Post by David Coffey » May 29th, 2015, 7:12 am

Zack, if possible, please let us know what you and your friend think of the wines you selected. This thread contains a lot of good suggestions for further exploration, and you also don't need to spend a fortune on Grand Crus to explore and enjoy Burgundy.

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#36 Post by scott c » May 29th, 2015, 8:04 am

George Chadwick wrote:De Montille Vosne Romane Malconsorts Cuvee Christiane. The grapes are entirely within the La Tache rectangle. It's either similar to the regular Malconsorts or it isn't. It's either La Tache quality or it isn't. Depends on what you read. You might find one for just under $500. Good luck finding one that's ready.
Good luck finding one, in any vintage, for less than $500. I've been searching for years, and even posted an ISO in Commerce Corner, and while I got responses, they were all north of $500.
Arnoux Suchots.
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#37 Post by edwardmilstein » May 29th, 2015, 9:32 am

For anyone still looking for good wines below 500- Just tasted 96 Jadot clos st Jacques and 98 Clos de Tart and both were terrific- 93-94pts the jadot is priced around 125-150 and the Tart is around 300.
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#38 Post by Keith Levenberg » May 29th, 2015, 10:52 am

scott c wrote:
George Chadwick wrote:De Montille Vosne Romane Malconsorts Cuvee Christiane. The grapes are entirely within the La Tache rectangle. It's either similar to the regular Malconsorts or it isn't. It's either La Tache quality or it isn't. Depends on what you read. You might find one for just under $500. Good luck finding one that's ready.
Good luck finding one, in any vintage, for less than $500. I've been searching for years, and even posted an ISO in Commerce Corner, and while I got responses, they were all north of $500.
That can't be. I understand the wine has gotten more expensive recently, but I bought it every year through 2010 and it was always $200-$300. I stopped buying in 2011 because I didn't feel like paying more for a vintage I didn't care for, but even that one was $400 or so.

I do love the wine. Not sure it's better than Dujac Malconsorts, though, which is cheaper.

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#39 Post by c fu » May 29th, 2015, 11:09 am

Keith Levenberg wrote:
scott c wrote:
George Chadwick wrote:De Montille Vosne Romane Malconsorts Cuvee Christiane. The grapes are entirely within the La Tache rectangle. It's either similar to the regular Malconsorts or it isn't. It's either La Tache quality or it isn't. Depends on what you read. You might find one for just under $500. Good luck finding one that's ready.
Good luck finding one, in any vintage, for less than $500. I've been searching for years, and even posted an ISO in Commerce Corner, and while I got responses, they were all north of $500.
That can't be. I understand the wine has gotten more expensive recently, but I bought it every year through 2010 and it was always $200-$300. I stopped buying in 2011 because I didn't feel like paying more for a vintage I didn't care for, but even that one was $400 or so.

I do love the wine. Not sure it's better than Dujac Malconsorts, though, which is cheaper.
The Christiane? $200-300?
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#40 Post by scott c » May 29th, 2015, 12:17 pm

Christiane is at least $450 on release now. There are exactly two listings for the 2011 on WSPro right now at that price. There is one listing for the 2012 at $619. But I'm more talking about back vintages. I'm glad Keith was in-the-know enough to buy it on release, but I've had to pay $600+ for anything older than 2011. You should see the auction prices for 2005!
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#41 Post by Mike Grammer » May 29th, 2015, 1:39 pm

For next time then, it's tempting to ignore your 2nd post, Zack [grin.gif] and say "2001 Leflaive Chevy Montrachet. That is all"

But I won't. ;) Suggestions for future or others interested? Maybe if you can source a Cecile Tremblay Vosne 1er or Echezeaux from 09 or 10 or even 05 if back that far?

Both your choices sound great. And yes, Taupenot-Merme makes a half barrel or so each year of the Lambrays---CdL has been trying to get Romain to part with it for years. The 1999 version was my WOTY a few years ago, it was absolutely sublime.

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#42 Post by Keith Levenberg » May 29th, 2015, 2:46 pm

Christiane is great but as a $450+ wine it is just silly. I am actually glad it is $600+ now because then I don't even have to think about it - at $400 maybe I'd buy some and then just feel crappy about spending so much. The whole point of the wine was that you were getting something like a Vosne-Romanee grand cru without paying Richebourg or RSV (much less La Tache) prices. At $600, screw it, just get some Richebourg. And like I said before, for what it is, it has plenty of cheaper competitors in the 1er cru space too - Dujac Malconsorts, various Gaudichots. Sounds like a pretty good theme for a blind tasting actually.

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Recommendation for 1 bottle of Burgundy < $500

#43 Post by George Chadwick » May 29th, 2015, 4:43 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:Christiane is great but as a $450+ wine it is just silly. I am actually glad it is $600+ now because then I don't even have to think about it - at $400 maybe I'd buy some and then just feel crappy about spending so much. The whole point of the wine was that you were getting something like a Vosne-Romanee grand cru without paying Richebourg or RSV (much less La Tache) prices. At $600, screw it, just get some Richebourg. And like I said before, for what it is, it has plenty of cheaper competitors in the 1er cru space too - Dujac Malconsorts, various Gaudichots. Sounds like a pretty good theme for a blind tasting actually.
Gerhard has posted some killer tastings here including one just like this and one about Chambertin v. Beze. Both really, really helpful just to read.
http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... gaudichots
http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... =graz+beze

But opening more than two bottles at any one event, regardless of the number of attendees, is a gluttonous waste and destroys what wine is all about and the person who does it doesn't deserve to drink wine. Wine is meant to be contemplated, only over dinner, only one bottle at a time, not actually consumed. You cannot compare two wines to each other. You cannot rate wine as if it were a skirted lawyer strolling past your construction site. Wine is subjective. The idea that wine change is caused by human activity is a myth. Etc.
Last edited by George Chadwick on May 29th, 2015, 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

George Chadwick
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Recommendation for 1 bottle of Burgundy < $500

#44 Post by George Chadwick » May 29th, 2015, 4:44 pm

Anyway a good way to buy things like Christiane, Morin, Morrissio, Rodin, is as part of a mixed lot at auction.

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