Admittedly, I am not a white wine drinker. However, about 3-4 years ago, while at a very nice pairing meal in NYC, I had a glass of the 2000 R. López de Heredia Rioja Blanco Crianza Viña Gravonia, and I loved it. So much so that I came home and bought a case of it from a to-be-unnamed retailer in NJ. I opened the first bottle, and it wasn’t great. 2nd, 3rd, 4th all the same. It wasn’t corked, but I remembered an amazing flavor (it would need to be for me to want to buy it).
Opened another bottle today, still just mediocre. I’ve tried chilling it, letting it warm a bit, sit open for a while (which seems to make it better a bit), but nothing really makes it seem like a great wine. Anyone have any thoughts other than I have a lot of cooking wine?
You mentioned you originally had it with a pairing meal…what did you eat with it and can your recreate that experience? I have had some spanish wines that were just meh, but after a couple olives and some ham, the wine seemed to come alive! I am not sure if that’s truly the case for you here, but it could be…
Do you generally like white wines which are oxidative? I personally love that wine, but it isn’t for everyone. Joe makes a good point that you may have really liked it in the context of the meal you had.
I recently had a 1996 Riserva with quite strong flavoured food, and it was brilliant. Maybe worth trying it in scenarios where you might normally go for a medium-light red.
Never had a bad Gravonia! The 2001s, in particular, were outstanding and am fortunately still holding onto one. A wonderful food wine from Spanish to Chinese to Indian cuisines and more.
But a “great” wine? My friend, this is your daily drinker - it costs barely more than $20! I think perhaps one grand evening of wonderful food and company may have elevated it somewhat beyond it’s status for you!
You might want to pay a few dollars more (mid-$30s) and try a Vina Tondonia blanco. A better wine, but requires more age (usually several more years beyond the current release which I think is presently 1998). A 1990 Tondonia blanco drunk last Fall was just spectacular and, to me, a “great” wine!
Bill, now you have to have another bottle with some food you would normally have with a red wine, and let us know how it went.
I recently bought 4 bottles of the recent release of this wine (04) without ever having tasted the wine. I bought it on speculation that producer is good and this wine has good value based on what I read on posts I found on this board. I was planning on drinking my bottles in a few years. I know some people don’t like the wine that much, but if you loved it that one time, you should again. Unless your case was badly stored somewhere along the line.
I recently bought 4 bottles of the recent release of this wine (04) without ever having tasted the wine. I bought it on speculation that producer is good and this wine has good value based on what I read on posts I found on this board.
Absolutely the worst reason to buy a wine! I’ve had those wines from many vintages and like some of them, others not so much. My wife OTOH loves Maria but is not a fan of those wines. You should really try the wines before you buy multiple bottles. You might want 2 cases. Then again, you might not want any.
As to the OP, the wines are what they are. There’s a little VA and a little oxidation and the longer you keep them the more those things play into the picture. I was going to dismiss the context but the more I think about it, the more I think that might have something to do with it. The wines are sui generis and if you’re having them in a place where people are rhapsodizing about them, you can get carried away by the crowd.
If you’ve had several bottles and you aren’t in love, that may be all the information you need. No requirement that you have to love wines that other people do.
The first time I had a LdH white, it was a bottle of Gravonia I bought on whim. When I tried some, I thought it was horrible and never would have bought it if I had tasted it first.
We also happened to have a plate of shaved jamon serrano on the table. A sip of wine and a shaving of jamon led to more and the bottle and plate were empty in no time. I read somewhere that most people in Spain like sherry (which I hate) with their jamon and tapas in general. I totally understand why. I buy cases of Gravonia and Tondonia blanco now.
Try it with some savory and salty food and it might sing for you.
Absolutely the worst reason to buy a wine! I’ve had those wines from many vintages and like some of them, others not so much. My wife OTOH loves Maria but is not a fan of those wines. You should really try the wines before you buy multiple bottles. You might want 2 cases. Then again, you might not want any.
In this case, I gifted one of the bottles leaving me 3. One I will drink soon and if I really like it, I’ll get more. If I don’t like it, I’m left with two bottles to let evolve and gain some some knowledge from the experience. And maybe I’ll find the wine really improves with age and I’ll be glad I have more than one. And in the interest of having some variety to select from down the road, it’s high reward, low risk decision.
I do agree it’s a mistake to buy large quantities on wine of wine I’m not 100% sure of, in general, and I often try to avoid it, but not always. And even if one likes a wine and buys quantities of it, there is no guarantee you will like it later (preferences change). I’ve read many posts written by people that purge their cellar because they have a lot of wine they don’t like any more. Avoiding that scenario, is tricky. It means one should try to consciously avoid focusing on one type of wine, and try to add some variety, which is what I did in this case.
With all that said, last week I bought a dozen bottles of a wine I have never tasted before and I won’t drink the first one for a few years. This would be a good example of the worst possible mistake you mentioned. But it’s a classic styled Bordeaux claret (2010 Chateau Lanessan) that is a board favorite and I’m very confident I’ll love it when it’s ready. I have really like the admittedly few claret I have had. This case is the only Bordeaux I have in my cellar. I’m willing to take the chance in this case, even though you may argue it’s the worst mistake I could make.
I think purchasing several '04s given that you liked the '02s/'01s or whatever isn’t exactly a shot in the dark. Though I rhapsodized a bit over the '01 vintage - and have found the '03s to be somewhat less than best - LdH has a pronounced house style that’s partially due to blending across vintages. I believe even the Tondonia Reservas have more than one vintage blended in, and only the Gran Reservas are entirely from the stated vintage.
That said, the '02 Tondonia tintos are wide open right now, whereas the '01s are significantly more closed and needing to integrate structure. Vintage difference certainly does exist, but it’s not as pronounced as with many other wine styles/regions.
I don’t think that buying four bottles on house style is the worst way to buy wine at all. Buying four bottles of something (or six or 12 for that matter) frequently provides price and shipping advantages.
As for the original post, you say that you first tried “a glass” of this wine. In addition to the issue of food accompaniment, this also raises the issue of how long the bottle had been open and how long you have since followed your bottles. This may be a case of wine that needs a lot of air. Though unfamiliar with this wine, I find that a lot of oxidative wines respond interestingly to air over time.
Buying bottles on house style is not a bad way to buy wine, it’s very sensible. My comment went to buying because it’s a board favorite. Who cares? If I were to buy board faves, I’d have a huge collection of Pinot Noir that I don’t particularly care for.
But to modify my original post, sure, it’s a great idea to buy a few bottles to try. How else would you ever know? However, buying an unknown case and not tasting but keeping in the hope of tasting it one day? Why not just buy an older bottle, try it, and then take the plunge if you like it, rather than wait to find out that you wish you had picked up something else?
It’s your money Bryan and I don’t mean to argue but before stashing stuff away you might want to taste more widely. The reason I ended up buying the wines I did is because in repeated tastings I preferred them to other wines. They weren’t board faves partly because this board didn’t exist and the Parker and WS boards didn’t have anyone who seemed to have a clue about those wines. Tondonia being a case in point.
That Lanessan is sort of a middling Bordeaux, not bad if you paid between $15-$20 but not extraordinary. I would suggest trying one pretty soon. One reason it might be a board fave is because it’s not overpriced. But there is a lot of good wine in that price range. Cheers!
I often buy board favorites, drink one right away and get great results. I’ve discovered some great wines this way. In fact, I’m totally guilty of lurking here and exclusively watching for affordable board favorites that pop up in threads. And I rely on local retailers to share their favorite affordable wines too (more hit and miss results) that are in my market and likely never mentioned on WB.
With a very modest 200 bottle collection, I don’t own one Pinot, even though it’s a board favorite.
I have no access to back vintages, otherwise I would buy and drink before committing to a case of a current release. This is a real constraint for me that impacts the buying approach I use.
Anyway, regardless of what strategies someone comes up with, the goal is usually the same. Locate and buy great wine, then drink great wine. I’m hoping the LdH Gravonia falls in to this category. I’ll try one in the near future.
I need to go read some more WB threads to see if there is any buzz on some wines I’d probably like.
I have also found that Gravonia needs a lot of air time. There is a cheesy/stinky feet thing that blows off after 2-3 hours of air time. Also, like others have said, because of the oxidized nature of these wines., pairing with a salty food (jamon, olives, almonds, etch) bring out the best in these.
I was going to wait a few years before opening one of my 04 LdH Gravonia, but this thread changed the plan, thanks to Greg. I’m sure I’m getting more out of this thread than Bill is.
The wine is a bit of a chameleon. It does adapt well to different situations. It’s a thinking mans wine that you can sip and ponder and follow as it changes on the nose and palate with time, circling thru different stages. And it goes very well with good when called upon as well. Excellent with Jamon.
At times, the nose reminds me of a red wine. Maybe a Chianti.
Not a delicious, wow wine. But an interesting wine that was engaging for the $$$. This is my first wine of this type, so I don’t have any past experiences to compare too. There is a lot to like about this wine. It checks a lot of boxes for the money, and I will buy more. Probably tonight.
+1 on the wine needing air. I’ve been in love with Gravonia since I found a bottle of '89 in a bargain bin in 2005. Ya, I too have opened bottles that tasted flat (less alive) on opening but they usually come around. I’ve put the cork back in, stick in the fridge, and check it from time to time. Give it a day, few days, a week, more…it comes around.
btw, the '93 Gravonia we had last week was fab after 4hrs open.
bmckenney, if you liked Gravonia (which is 100% viura), you should definitely splurge for a Tondonia reserva blanco (white blend). Good step up in complexity. I like the LdH reserva much more than the GRs (for blanco…reds are a different story!).
I have some of the 96 tondonia blanco - definitely needs air - if I’m taking it somewhere I double decant in the morning and if drinking at home, open and take a small glass the night before.
Sorry, everyone, I forgot to ask for notices when a reply is posted, and forgot about this. I had some great food with the wine, can’t remember what exactly, but it was probably the pairing. I have an atypical view of wine - to me, if it doesn’t stand on its own, then I don’t really want to drink it. I think this is definitely a pairing wine, and that’s not really how I consume my wine.
Letting the wine breathe for 2 hours to 3 days made some difference, but the truth is I’m just not a fan of this wine. I don’t think anything is wrong with it, it must just have been a great pairing. My recollection is that it was unlike any other white I’d had, which this still is. However, it was also a small tasting as part of a 5 star meal in NYC with my wife, and the experience may have colored my taste buds a bit.