For those who collect and store wines for future enjoyment, there’s always a bit of blind faith, and often trust in “experts” like Asimov, Tanzer, et al. We spend a lot of time, money and worry on bottles that we hope will turn into something glorious one day. Most of the time, we get it right, but there are always those clunkers that disappoint. Yes, palates change, but these are wines that remain stubbornly unyielding and give little pleasure. Wines that have been coddled for years but leave you wondering: Is that all there is?
For example, over the years I have carefully assembled from various sources a mixed case of Chave’s estate St. Joseph from various vintages in the early and mid 2000s. Yes, I know these wines take years to unfold, but geez everytime I crack one open to check on the evolution it’s screechy and blocky. Where’s the Chave magic?
White Burgundy and premox aside, which wines in your cellar make you the most nervous about ever paying off for you?
I am a buyer, I have had several bottles that I have liked, but I have yet to have a bottle that was (1) actually mature to my taste or (2) a complete epiphany where I felt like I subsequently would be chasing the Rhys dragon for the remainder of my wine-drinking career.
Obviously, it is a great operation, a lot of sweat and resources have gone into it, and the wines appear to be high quality and ageworthy, but I am sitting on a modest stash and find myself wondering not infrequently whether they will mature into something that excites me as much as certain Burgundy or Northern Rhone wines in the same price range, for example.
Various aged whites. I have some mid-1990s Beaucastel Blanc that is occasionally quite interesting but more often sherry or dead. Others like 1990s Savennières are often good but even then many people don’t like them.
I’ve never had a Chave St. Joseph. Are they great wines, or do they forever live in the shadow of their big brother? If they have even a bit of the class of the Hermitage, I need to start looking for them…
I’ve only had a few young ones so I don’t really know, but they have been by far my favorite St. Josephs. I’ve started collecting them since I can’t afford the real thing now. I’m not expecting them to be like that but I hope they will continue to hold interest as they age. They are expensive for St. Joe, though.
there’s always a bit of blind faith, and often trust in “experts” like Asimov, Tanzer, et al.
That is where your problem lies. Asimov is an “expert”? Really? He’s a nice guy and all but from whence his expertise?
Tanzer is a hard-working guy who tastes a lot of wine. But how is his prediction any better than yours? If you buy and cellar wines based on the predictions of other people, you’re bound to be screwed from time to time. The only wines to cellar intentionally are those you know because you’ve had old vintages. That’s not to say I haven’t accidentally aged a lot of wines, but nothing really gives me pause.
I have the same questions - and that’s not in the least a knock on Kevin, who from everything I can see is a good dude and a very careful winemaker. Part of it is that I don’t have a great sense of CA pinot over the long haul (and I’m not sure there is a good comparator - again, not a knock, but something inherent in being out on the leading edge). For me, “you already have way too much wine” also plays in.
Then there’s Bourdy. That’s less “pause” than “eject.”
Metras - when they are on, they are great…but they can be messed up.
Overnoy - see above. '93 Poulsard, for instance, is firmly in the messed up category for me.
Leroy - Richard Leroy that is…see above.
L’Anglore - haven’t impressed.
Cornelissen - they are often messed up…don’t have many left.
…various san soufre natural wines that I’ve probably aged too long.
These represent a tiny part of my cellar - most of the stuff I buy regularly are quite predictable and consistent.
Re: others
Gave up on Rhys a while ago.
Bourdy is old…but too often mediocre IMO. I can’t get over his smoking.
I don’t think the problem is with Rhys, but with CA pinot. Everyone I know who still buys CA pinot drink them relative young because when they lose their fruitiness and youthful exuberance, they rarely develop as enjoyable secondary flavors. I admit though when I want that fruitiness and exuberance I go for Cru Beaujolais as I’m not a fan of Pinot.
Michael I am not reading your post as being negative. I read it as you waiting with bated breath. To me, there is no such thing among honest serious wine aficionados as “buying into the Rhys experience.” I have struggled with this winery in terms of whether it really is Barry Bonds without steroids plus Buster Posey plus Harrison Barnes plus Jamies Winston with a different nervous system…in other words, can I be a raving fan the way I am of pre-1998 Williams Selyem? and this is what I have found:
They are generally too young.
Everything before 2008 is a minefield.
The vineyards differ from each other wildly.
There are a lot of stems, sometimes. It’s important to recognize and mentally isolate the flavor of stems in a young pinot rather than swallowing the whole experience at once. I think that, as with oak, in a young pinot one needs to see what the stems are doing versus the rest of the wine. Spicy? Sexy? Soapy? Gaggy?
They will age very, very well. All of the reds.
The Chardonnays have nothing to do with the pinots. If you really like California Chardonnay, they are fascinating, sometimes the Horseshoe is the wide open tropical one, sometimes the Alpine, and in the same bottle you get steely and minerally, depending on which sip you are on. I do buy a couple of bottles of the chard. But I’m not sure that, except for Rhys, I need to drink another bottle of California chardonnay ever again. Too many white wines I know almost nothing about that go better with food.
I just opened my first Swan Terrace, a 2007. It’s nothing like the other Rhys wines I have had.
Bearwallow was ehh to me – I only bought any to get my allocation of other wines – until the 2011. Until the 2011 it was like the Chardonnays, very Californian. Rich, fruity, correct, but nothing I would become a fan of. And I sort of got skeptical about Kevin Harvey’s early raves about this vineyard and I saw it as a cash cow. Not in the Rhys style to me. Until 2011.
I have not opened a Skyline yet.
If you think tasteable oak doesn’t really belong in a pinot, appreciate the fact that Rhys agrees with you.
Anyway…if you try a 2007 Swan and a 2008 Horseshoe and neither one wows you, give up on Rhys. Both blew me away.
I am right now drinking a pinot, not a Rhys, that got 98 points and was rated the best pinot in the country (not a Rhys). It would be a very interesting head to head matchup with a pre-2011 Bearwallow. The above two Rhys wines, 2007 Swan and 2008 Horseshoe, are clearly substantially better wines than this 98 point pinot.
So, as someone who gives this a lot of thought, I’m with you on the idea of not swallowing Rhys whole. But if you haven’t had each of the vineyards in both a new and an older vintage, keep trying. I used to be on every cult cab mailing list except Colgin, plus five cases a year of Burt Williams pinots, plus five cases a year of Turley zins (the very best wine in the world to drink while barbecuing outside in the hot sun with lots of sauce). A mixed load of Rhys surpasses all of these.
Comparing QPR to Burgundy? I think psychologically when people think they are comparing an $80 Rhys to the typical $80 Burgundy they’re really comparing an $80 Rhys to the very best $80 Burgundy they’ve ever had. Not fair. In the past two years at least 90 percent of my wine purchases have been red Burgundy, older and older, so I’ve given the Rhys-as-Burgundy thing a lot of thought. I get a lot of Morey sometimes and some Gevrey when they are young but because I have a lot of California pinot under my belt I didn’t have to go there and I think it’s a waste of time, much like drinking a 2012 Burgundy right now is a waste of time.
There are Brett problems with Rhys apparently. I have avoided them completely, mostly by avoiding pre-2008 Family Farm.
Hmmm…where should I start?
I worry about Italian wines being corked, because I have seemingly had a higher rate with Italy that with any other country.
I worry about traditional Cote Rotie having brett, again, because of higher rates of brett I’ve experienced with French syrah.
I worry about white wines losing their acids and becoming sugar soup.
I worry about oak not integrating into the wine, especially from reviewers notes or winemakers saying “the oak will ‘be absorbed’ into it.”
I worry when I catch a wine in a dumb stage and it provides no pleasure to drink it.
I worry when alcohol shows through, even on bottles that are lower in alcohol.
I worry older California bottles will lose their fruit and have nothing else to replace it with.
I worry I will never, ever truly warm up to vin jaune.
For a supposedly ‘pleasurable’ hobby, this enough to turn a man’s hair white! Oooops…
All those TJ Lafites I bought at auction. The last one I opened tasted like Dead Arm. Maybe they are just starting to develop their quaternary characteristics.
This is really a very thoughtful post. Thank you, George.
I’ve had my Rhys epiphanies twice now. Once at the winery where we tasted through several 2012’s, including Swan Terrace (my notes are posted if you care to search), and again Friday night with an amazing bottle of 2010 Horseshoe. Even though I have been collecting all the Rhys I can afford for several years now, I am still learning the vineyard profiles, and associating them to my own palate. For example I noticed that the 2008 and 2010 Bearwallow are shows as “Drink” on the Rhys vintage chart, so I opened my last bottle of 2008 two nights ago. Frankly, it did not inspire me. Nice wine to be sure, but no magic. I will probably tasted a 2010 soon to see if it is in a similar style.
Which leads me to my questions. You say 2011 is very different than the earlier vintages of Bearwallow, but you don’t expand on that thinking. What is so different about 2011? Are you saying that 2011 stands alone, or have you also tasted 2012 (and maybe 2013?) and are you saying that stylistically Bearwallow has changed (presumably for the better)?
I have a bottle of 2002 Grange that gives me pause. I’ve never had Grange, and this is the only bottle I have. Folks on here overwhelmingly told me not to pop it because it is far too young, but the longer I have it, the more it has to live up to, and I’m just not sure any wine can be that good.
Full disclosure, the only reason I have the bottle is that I got a screaming steal on it and couldn’t say no, but the likelihood of me ever dropping market price on a good vintage of Grange again are slim to none.
The thing that gives me the greatest pause is when I open any bottle that is my last bottle of a certain wine.
A twinge of sadness, questioning my ability to fully appreciate that wine at that moment, and is it the right time, anyway? Those thoughts swirl in my head, and sometimes I think, “Maybe my palate isn’t at its best today,” and I will wait. Other times, I think, “Dude, what is wrong with you?” and I proceed upstairs to bask in the glory of chatting with my prefect wife (she really is) while we discuss the wine and enjoy it.
So, there are definitely moments when I am holding a bottle, and think, “Wait.”
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