The 1990s thread is a good exercise in ranking, how about the 80s?
85 - only vintage that would be up with top four in 90s, IMHO
88
89
86 - Major drop down from the first three
80 - Haven’t had one for a while and not sure these are still good, but the then version of 2000 and 2007 (Drank very nicely for a long time)
87
83 - Very inconsistent.
82
81
84
I have had some gorgeous 89s recently.
85, 88, 83, 89, 80, 81, 87, 82, 82, 84 -
1980 was the sleeper vintage of my early purchasing days. As a retailer I sold a boatload of '83s, then wanted to run and hide when the vintage received so much bad press in the late 1980s. Amazing that so many of them have come around.
My own list is:
'88, '83, '85, '86, '80 , '89, ('82-'87-'81-84)…all pretty bad, as vintages.
'88 and '83 are not as consistent as '85 was/is…but, when either is on…and in the case of '83 it has been VERY often since it reached 25 years old…the highs and , indeed, the consistency have been really good, though…'88 is more consistent than '83, by a little bit…BUT '83 reached/reaches as high heights as any vintage I’ve ever known. '85 when in barrel released…seemed to be a watershed year, but too many lack/lacked sufficient structure (mainly acidity) to preserve the nice fruit on their finishes to become a “great vintage” IMO, ie, lots of disappointments. I’ve almost never had an '89 that impressed me…even from great producers…sort of a lesser version of '85: nice fruit, light on structure and very short on the finish,ie, little depth of fruit and no zip (acidity). Really think '86 was a very good vintage in Cote de Nuits…The 81-87-82-84 group is a toss up…all unimpressive…in no particular order.
I have certainly had some good 83s (one that I remember was Mongeard-Mugneret’s Echezeaux). But, did some of the really awful ones come around or did we all abandon those and forget about them and have only had the good ones in later years.
For me the tiers would be:
80/85/88
83/86/89
82
81/84/87
Howard, we continue to have great luck with 1980, and when they are on 88 may be my favorite of the 80’s.
And I’ll add that I agree with virtually every word of Stuart’s comments.
For generosity and sweetness of fruit 1985 and 1989 standout but I prefer 19985. Perhaps the two best structured vintages of the 80’s are 1983 and 1988. 1988’s in general are still not ready but it is a good vintage. 1983 tends to get tarred with the rot brush, which may indeed be a load of rot because nearly every 83 I have drunk over the past decade has been very good and it is a vintage that is one of the very best of the 80’s. 1980 is a really good vintage that has tended to fly under the radar a bit. Even at the Village level there are some delicious drinks right now, Dujac’s MSD and Roumier’s Chambolle are splendid and Faiveley made excellent 1980’s right across the board. I’ve had quite a few 82’s from some of the better addresses including Henri Jayer and Jayer-Gilles’ Echezeaux, Rousseau’s ‘Beze’, de Courcel’s ‘Epenots’ and Gerorge Lignier’s ‘Combottes’ and each wine was splendid, perhaps this is the real under-rated vintage of the decade? 1987 is not highly regarded but a recent bottle of de Vogue Musigny was splendid as was a Pierre Bouree Chambertin. I think 1986 is quite honest with some wines that are at their peak now. Faiveley’s Echezeaux has been drinking really well for around a decade now and Henri Jayer’s NSG is an outstanding wine. I have little experience with 1981 but have had multiple bottles of Dujac’s CdlR that have been excellent. I reckon I’ve only had one 1984 over the past 5 years or so and that was a just serviceable bottle of Mongeard-Mugneret Echezeaux.
wouldn’t 1990 be the last vintage in the 80’s?
I know Howard has been passionate about Truchot through the years, but Nick, Howard and the others posting, are you still enjoying the same producers? I understand Truchot retired about 10 years ago, but otherwise? Just curious.
85,88,89,80,83,86,82,81,87,84.
For the most part, I am drinking other producers but there is overlap.
When I started drinking wines in the mid to late 70s, I was still in school and most of the Burgs I had were at home with my father. He had a lot of wines from Faiveley and Bichot (mostly their domaine wine, Clos Frantin) and a few individual producers like Pousse D’Or. I still drink Faiveley and Pousse D’Or.
In the 80s, I came to DC and started buying my own Burgs. I remember finding some Faiveley Clos Vougeot 1978 at $10 when a store was going out of business as a huge find and experimented a good bit with producers, some successfully, some not so much. In the mid-80s, I met David Schildknecht, who was in retail then and from him I started learning about better producers like Truchot (first ones were 85), Bachelet, etc. The problem with Burgundy producers is that as they become better known, the price goes flying. Interestingly, that never happened with Truchot until he retired.
These days I buy a mixture of producers I have liked for a long time and producers who are newer to me. Some of my favorites that I have found in recent years include Chandon de Briailles (first time I tasted their wines was in 2007, when I visited the estate at the recommendation of John Gilman), Rossignol-Trapet, and Domaine Dublere, among others.
As a retailer back in the day, I remember having to purchase quite a bit of the '87s because the importers were holding us hostage with the upcoming '88s - if you don’t buy any '87s, you won’t get any 1988s. And I remember being so pleasantly surprised as they came in. A very early maturing vintage and at 3-4 years of age, they were just the prettiest of wines.
1985
1989
1988
all following more or less irregular:
1983
1980
1982
1987
1986
1981
1984
As someone who has only seriously tasted these wines way after release, this is very interesting. While I’ve been interested in wine for 20+ years, Burgs were not really on my radar at first -I think '96 was first Burg vintage I purchased at release (and that was maybe a mixed case). And only really tasted many older ones the last 12-15 years. So my impressions are different from those with deeper experience. I’ve had much better luck with 87s than most here, but maybe that is just a function of some friends with well chosen 87s in their cellar. Before reading this, I would have said:
1985 1988 1983
1989
1980 1987
1982
1986 1981 1984
Again, that’s based on a lot less data than some here. I’ve probably been overrating '87s, and maybe underrating '86 for instance (I guess that’s how an 86 Drouhin Mouches pleasantly surprised me).
Thanks for all the info.
I agree, and had 87 rated higher than a lot of people did. Not a great vintage by any means, but one with a lot of enjoyable wines, IMHO.
'89 over '88 Gerhard? Why?
[quote=“Thomas Keim”][quote=“Gerhard P.”]
1985
1989
1988
all following more or less irregular:
1983
1980
1982
1987
1986
1981
1984[/quote]
'89 over '88 Gerhard? Why?[/quote]
I´ve tasted a lot of both vintages.
´88 is classic, tannic, long-living (some even not yet mature), but often the tannins are quite hard, acidity always noticable, and I simply don´t feel that they will (ever) provide the same pleasure that most ´89 are giving already now. Impressive YES, but less enjoyable. Lesser wines can even be hard on the edge of adstringent, with doubtful balance.
´89 (the fine examples) are already sweet, complex, flavorful and very interesting, yes, some are lacking a bit intensity, but most are really mouthfilling and seductive. The easier ´89 wines were always fine to drink, some are even still fine.
Unfortunately the two vintages might never be fully mature at the same time … well, maybe in 1920-25 for the top wines …
We had a comparative tasting of ten ´88 and ´89 each some years ago (not always the same Crus or producers), and almost never was a ´88 better than the ´89, not even taking the potential into account.
Burgundy can be an intellectual wine, too, but it also should provide pleasure … rarely tasted anything more pleasurable than ´89 Musigny Jadot or Clos de la Roche Ponsot …
85,80,89,88/83…
I am planning to take a Jean Gros Richebourg to the wallys auction on Friday. Will bring a back up; will almost certainly need it