US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

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Michel Abood
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1101 Post by Michel Abood » January 14th, 2020, 7:00 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 4:27 pm
I have not had this degree of anxiety for many months...
As I've discovered, sleep is WAY overrated... [snort.gif]
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1102 Post by RichardFlack » January 14th, 2020, 7:15 pm

I’m not sure why people blame companies for taking legal steps to minimise their taxes under the various tax rules which apply. The fault lies with countries that set the rules (usually with the hope of attracting investment of some kind, not always realised).

So governments take steps to redress the balance. Good. And if corporations take unreasonable steps to lobby against the adjustments then they should be criticised.

The problem is the way countries compete for investment. Tax credits, subsidies, soft loans etc. Not sure how one can stop that. Tariffs are a terrible way of doing it because of the collateral damage to imposing country. International agreements are the way to do it in theory. But with countries like the US tearing up international agreements and institutions it’s going to be difficult.

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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1103 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » January 14th, 2020, 8:24 pm

G. D y e r wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 8:17 am
Presuming this tariff isn't resolved, where do our dollars and importers go?

I suspect I'll probably investigate WA and OR wines more deeply. Not because they're equivalent to French and Italian wines, but for the sake of variety.

Importers probably will have to focus on South America if they have a hope of survival and, to a lesser extend, Australia and New Zealand. But again, that is not a 1-to-1 swap for European wines.

All of this is bad news, from the industry down to consumers' freedom of choice, but even as a consumer I need to think about contingencies.
A market that I think is terribly under-represented is South Africa. I'll continue to buy from the few American producers I already buy from. I may try some American producers I've long been telling myself I want to try, but simply never have.

I think we'll see an uptick in auction offerings and purchases (I imagine the tariffs would be a boon to auction sellers).

I've been buying more than normal the past couple of months, preparing for what would be a screeching halt to most of my purchasing if the 100% tariffs hit.

Finally, I figure this will be a great opportunity to drink down our cellar somewhat --- it's finally starting to offer some maturity, and we *do* have too many holdings in certain areas.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1104 Post by Nola Palomar » January 14th, 2020, 9:50 pm

From one the shipping companies I work with.
January 14, 2020

EU Tariff Updates

Here is a quick recap of the tariff updates and a thank you for all who reached out and to members who submitted comments.

France / Digital Service Tax – public hearings were held last week, it is now up to the US Trade Representative Office to make a determination.

EU Tariffs / Civil Aircraft Subsidies – public comment period closed, moves to public hearings.

The US Trade Office released a joint statement today after Robert Lighthizer met with the Trade Ministers of The European Union (Phil Hogan) and Japan to discuss industrial subsidies and ways to strengthen WTO rules around subsidies and countervailing measures.

We will continue to share any new developments in this situation, and as always for any questions on your shipments or logistics alternatives in this current regulatory environment, please contact our shipping partner Hillebrand for more information.


© North American Shippers Association (NASA) 2147 Route 27, Edison New Jersey 08817 USA
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1105 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » January 15th, 2020, 4:19 am

RichardFlack wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 7:15 pm
I’m not sure why people blame companies for taking legal steps to minimise their taxes under the various tax rules which apply. The fault lies with countries that set the rules (usually with the hope of attracting investment of some kind, not always realised).

So governments take steps to redress the balance. Good. And if corporations take unreasonable steps to lobby against the adjustments then they should be criticised.

The problem is the way countries compete for investment. Tax credits, subsidies, soft loans etc. Not sure how one can stop that. Tariffs are a terrible way of doing it because of the collateral damage to imposing country. International agreements are the way to do it in theory. But with countries like the US tearing up international agreements and institutions it’s going to be difficult.
Just be aware that the EU continues to subsidize Airbus. This is not just an American issue.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1106 Post by RichardFlack » January 15th, 2020, 5:26 am

Yes the subsidy / soft taxes etc are very definitely a global issue. I thought that’s what I was saying. But, for example, the destruction of the WTO is a US initiative. And the US is fighting the attempt to better tax tech companies.

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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1107 Post by Markus S » January 15th, 2020, 5:31 am

RichardFlack wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 5:26 am
Yes the subsidy / soft taxes etc are very definitely a global issue. I thought that’s what I was saying. But, for example, the destruction of the WTO is a US initiative. And the US is fighting the attempt to better tax tech companies.
Yes, let's call the kettle black where it needs to be called.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1108 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » January 15th, 2020, 5:53 am

The destruction of the WTO (by the U.S.) is a complete cluster-f***. That being said, it's a much deeper (way more political) discussion than we can have here.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1109 Post by AndrewH » January 15th, 2020, 8:53 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 4:19 am
RichardFlack wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 7:15 pm
I’m not sure why people blame companies for taking legal steps to minimise their taxes under the various tax rules which apply. The fault lies with countries that set the rules (usually with the hope of attracting investment of some kind, not always realised).

So governments take steps to redress the balance. Good. And if corporations take unreasonable steps to lobby against the adjustments then they should be criticised.

The problem is the way countries compete for investment. Tax credits, subsidies, soft loans etc. Not sure how one can stop that. Tariffs are a terrible way of doing it because of the collateral damage to imposing country. International agreements are the way to do it in theory. But with countries like the US tearing up international agreements and institutions it’s going to be difficult.
Just be aware that the EU continues to subsidize Airbus. This is not just an American issue.

It's a Chinese issue?


As a consumer of airplanes, via flights, I'm happy to have United, American, Delta, etc. purchase airplanes that are cheaper than they otherwise would be because of subsidies from the EU - presumably some portion of those savings are passed along to me in the form of lower ticket prices. So should consumers in the rest of the world welcome the subsidies. The only claim of harm from subsidies is made by Airbus's competitors, which right now is Boeing (and may eventually include Comac) and its shareholders. I'm really not worried that Boeing is going to go out of business because it has to lower prices in order to remain an effective competitor to Airbus (though they may go out of business because of their 737Max decisions).
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1110 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » January 15th, 2020, 9:18 am

When Boeing's supply chain starts laying off people due to reduced sales (as is already happening because of the Max) then it's not so much happiness about cheaper tickets.

I don't want to go further down this road in Wine Talk.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1111 Post by Nola Palomar » January 17th, 2020, 2:34 pm

Latest news from the NASA
North American Shippers Association (NASA)

January 17, 2020

EU Tariff Update – No further hearings

We have received a clarification that the US Trade Representative office will NOT be holding additional hearings related to the tariffs in the Civil Aircraft Subsidies. The USTR advised our industry coalition partner DISCUS that they view the two previous hearings in the dispute are sufficient.

We have no further information on the timing of announcements of the final products, origins or tariffs rates, but the USTR is limited to the products/origins published on July 5, 2019 (which includes all wine types from all 28 EU member nations along with spirits, cordials and liquors).

Tariff action is subject to Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 statues and practices which provides for a period review and revision of the retaliation list by the USTR. In the aircraft subsidies dispute, unless there is an agreement reached or other legal exception, the schedule calls for review within 120 days of the start of the retaliation, and then every 180 days thereafter. The changeable nature of this retaliation tariff is known as “carousel retaliation.”

The 25% tariffs on specified EU products/origins went into effect October 18th, 2019. If, again this is a big “if” because they technically can do it anytime, they review within 120 days from the original tariff posting, that would put us around the week of February 17, 2020.
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Re: US to impose 25% — and now 100% — tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#1112 Post by Tim Heaton » January 17th, 2020, 2:38 pm

thank you, Nola!
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