Search found 1746 matches

by Jonathan Loesberg
April 1st, 2020, 6:59 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Non-commercial but emotional post, long – a Greek wine
Replies: 18
Views: 955

Re: Non-commercial but emotional post, long – a Greek wine

Jonathan, Thanks for the memories. "And any reader of Milton knows what the Areopagus is." I've never read Milton, but I've never been to Greece without walking up those worn, slick steps to the acre of rubble on the Areopagus, where democracy was born. Dan Kravitz Milton's essay on free speech is ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 31st, 2020, 2:00 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Non-commercial but emotional post, long – a Greek wine
Replies: 18
Views: 955

Re: Non-commercial but emotional post, long – a Greek wine

I remember having a white Nostos with you at a wine dinner when we traded Pegaus. I bought a bunch of bottles of it from, I think, Macarthur's and quite enjoyed them, but never found it again.

And any reader of Milton knows what the Areopagus is.
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 31st, 2020, 1:28 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment
Replies: 1321
Views: 76947

Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

I don't want to defend the tariffs or even this supposed relief as in any way real, but, really, if you expect that paying a lump sum will be a hardship and you have the income, just set it aside as you owe it to pay when the moment comes.
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 29th, 2020, 8:29 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Uncorked on Netflix
Replies: 44
Views: 3732

Re: Uncorked on Netflix

The rating is TV-MA. Are there any parts I should be worried about watching with my 13 year old daughter? We're Memphis based so would love to watch this as a family. I wouldn’t watch it with a 13 year old. There are some scenes that are not appropriate for children. Just my opinion. Although there...
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 27th, 2020, 12:57 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Your Favorite Wines Inroduced to You by a Fellow Board Member - Top 3-5?
Replies: 88
Views: 4453

Re: Your Favorite Wines Inroduced to You by a Fellow Board Member - Top 3-5?

Me three on Calahan Loire reds, Muscadet and Beaujolais that I still buy, just to name a few.
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 23rd, 2020, 12:38 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: 2016 Montrose
Replies: 31
Views: 1210

Re: TN: 2016 Montrose

You guys are chickens. I am 66 (63 at purchase) and took a half case. I plan to drink well in my 80’s [berserker.gif] I have bad genes! My dad drank classic wines, then his palate at 70, died. At 80 he loves drinking wine but it needs to be a cult Cali or something by Rolland or Cambie, lol. This e...
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 19th, 2020, 11:25 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: 2016 CdP
Replies: 29
Views: 2774

Re: 2016 CdP

I had gone sour on Cayron after the early aughts. It hadn't gone all modern and gooey. It just seemed to me not as interesting a wine. As a result of someone telling me to try the 16, which I did, as well as the 17, when I was there in December. I really think it has come back to making wines like i...
by Jonathan Loesberg
March 1st, 2020, 9:10 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Guest etiquette: Wine glasses
Replies: 91
Views: 3901

Re: Guest etiquette: Wine glasses

Normally,I would think it to be bad manners to scorn the glassware at a place to which you have been invited to dinner. But in this case, you have been specifically identified as someone who knows good wine and have been requested to bring nice wine. Under these circumstances, I don't think it out o...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 27th, 2020, 12:54 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Tasting visits...trifling questions.
Replies: 28
Views: 1597

Re: Tasting visits...trifling questions.

We visit far more frequently in France than in the US and the wineries generally have cellars of their own wines so, even if we decided to bring an older vintage from the US to France, it would be more like coals to Newcastle. To places we visit frequently we do bring gifts, ranging from US wines th...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 24th, 2020, 8:17 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: continuing the discussion on old wines
Replies: 57
Views: 3616

Re: continuing the discussion on old wines

I got the metaphor, just trying to understand the use of that metaphor. My literal comment at the end was in jest. Thanks for the context on 2016, I’ve been re-thinking it recently. I had stopped at 2014, such a wonderfully classic and affordable vintage, but have slowly started buying some 16s. Wa...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 18th, 2020, 11:35 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: Chateau Musar 2012-1997 vertical
Replies: 44
Views: 2450

Re: TN: Chateau Musar 2012-1997 vertical

Thank you Otto, this is both informative and useful. Though I have to say, Musar may be the only wine where you are spoiled on pricing compared with the US. Not counting all French wines in France, I suppose. Or, at least, ex domaine. I was talking US vs Finland Ah. I know nothing about prices in F...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 18th, 2020, 11:04 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: Chateau Musar 2012-1997 vertical
Replies: 44
Views: 2450

Re: TN: Chateau Musar 2012-1997 vertical

Jay Miller wrote:
February 18th, 2020, 8:55 am
Thank you Otto, this is both informative and useful.

Though I have to say, Musar may be the only wine where you are spoiled on pricing compared with the US.
Not counting all French wines in France, I suppose. Or, at least, ex domaine.
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 14th, 2020, 7:37 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing
Replies: 32
Views: 1593

Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

Sparked by this thread, I served a bottle of the 2019 Coudert Cuvee at a dinner party last weekend. I'm not sure if it was that different from Robert's opening description and we all liked it better or if it was a better showing. It was certainly more forward on the nose at first and a little restra...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 13th, 2020, 9:06 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: I'm done*
Replies: 383
Views: 23276

Re: I'm done*

Thanks very much all. I plan to teach a little and do pro bono work, so "retired" might be a bit of an exaggeration. I have one more argument in the 4th Cir for a pro bono client I promised to finish off. But as Dave said, I will now finally have time to correct all of your mistakes here. One of th...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 13th, 2020, 7:37 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Drink Rhone
Replies: 14
Views: 1279

Re: Drink Rhone

It's not new world, so much. He started as a Southern Rhone enthusiast. But he always like big, ripe wines and also wines made with modernist techniques, and, particularly, what I will call Cambie styled wines (though some wines that have Cambie as an oenologist are Cambier than others, so think Clo...
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 13th, 2020, 7:16 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: I'm done*
Replies: 383
Views: 23276

Re: I'm done*

Congratulations, Neal. Welcome to the ranks of the gainfully unemployed.
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 12th, 2020, 11:20 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Drink Rhone
Replies: 14
Views: 1279

Re: Drink Rhone

If you like Northern and/ or Southern Rhone wines, you also like traditionally made wines, Jeb Dunnock's palate is not yours, and you want to follow a reviewer, I'd say Livingstone is your best bet.
by Jonathan Loesberg
February 6th, 2020, 7:07 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing
Replies: 32
Views: 1593

Re: TN: 2009 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Cuvée Tardive - Disappointing

I haven't had this wine in a year or so, but it seemed to be great then and certainly good for a few more years. Based on all your comments, it might be that you just don't like Beaujolais with age on them. The wines do change and if you are drinking them for bright, fresh fruit, you should ignore a...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 31st, 2020, 9:13 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: 1994 Domaine du Pegau: Chateauneuf du Pape - Cuvee Reserve (S.Rhone, France).
Replies: 11
Views: 679

Re: TN: 1994 Domaine du Pegau: Chateauneuf du Pape - Cuvee Reserve (S.Rhone, France).

I must have had my last bottle around 2014. A great wine from an underrated vintage.
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 31st, 2020, 8:19 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

Jim, on a thread like this, please use “pain grille” over “toast”. Don’t be so Bourgeois. Not to be a pedant but French for French toast is Pain Perdu. It may also surprise you to learn that the French do not eat French Fries, do not take French leave and do not give each other French kisses. and F...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 31st, 2020, 6:20 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

(off topic) WB is worlds colliding and it suits me just fine. A thread as erudite as this can coexist with a thread entitled "French Toast Anyone?" Jim, on a thread like this, please use “pain grille” over “toast”. Don’t be so Bourgeois. Not to be a pedant but French for French toast is Pain Perdu....
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 29th, 2020, 1:23 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

1) You seem to be defining Nouvelle Cuisine. Why would you connect that to modernism and why do you think it is like literary modernism, which eschewed realism for less consequential modes of narrative that modernists thought corresponded more with the workings of human consciousness (Joyce, Woolf, ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 29th, 2020, 8:30 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

Sorry, mediate may have been the wrong term. The aim of such discourse is more than expression but an exchange of ideas that can ideally lead to agreement (it happens: Peter H above convinced me of the validity of his point about Joyce. Of course, it happens rarely alas). Lots of people have come up...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 29th, 2020, 7:11 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

art1 /ärt/ noun plural noun: arts 1. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. I think the definition can apply to wine. This defin...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 28th, 2020, 11:16 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

Levi Dalton, whose podcasts are wonderully informative, has, on another board, regularly argued that wine is meaning-bearing and that it literally talks to him. I suppose for him, it could be an art form. All I can say is that it hasn't ever literally talked to me. I’d love to read this. Which boar...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 28th, 2020, 10:33 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

I second this categorization, first because it sets out clear categories without ersatz comparisons to literature and art Hmmm . . . . And yet there often is a direct correlation between movements in forms of art, whether it be architecture, music, cuisine, painting, sculpting, literature, etc. Ind...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 28th, 2020, 7:29 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical
Replies: 35
Views: 1735

Re: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical

I agree with Robert. In my tastings I serve generally young to old, but not strictly ... rather pair similar vintages to compair in the same flight ... like 2003 and 2007, or 2001 and 2005 or 1995. The youngest vintages at the end is a double waste... (imho) That’s quite a strong opinion. While I w...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 28th, 2020, 7:23 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

I have no position on how tasting notes should be. I was commenting on what they were and what the implications of that would be. I have to say that I have never been moved to pity and fear by wine and I would have a hard time understanding a tasting note that claimed a wine had done that unless it ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 28th, 2020, 6:54 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

art1 /ärt/ noun plural noun: arts 1. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. I think the definition can apply to wine. This defin...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 27th, 2020, 6:25 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

"the claim in a post above that the opening sentence of Finnegans Wake is traditional is mind blowing" I didn't say it was traditional, I said it was "natural" wine. Joyce was pointing out how we are recapitulating ancient ways, but this time "awake". (or woke, as they say now) You could say that t...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 27th, 2020, 6:21 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

Cuisine like wine isn't art and because neither is a meaning bearing discourse , the matchup won't work. And, if you don't agree with the conceptual distinction, just look at the connections being offered above. Even architecture, which is clearly an art form, presents difficulties when one moves b...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 26th, 2020, 3:55 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

Cuisine like wine isn't art and because neither is a meaning bearing discourse, the matchup won't work. And, if you don't agree with the conceptual distinction, just look at the connections being offered above. Even architecture, which is clearly an art form, presents difficulties when one moves bey...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 26th, 2020, 8:16 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of

Should we not be calling the wines of Rolland, Cambie, Derenoncourt, Heidi Barrett, et al, these newer style wines, “post-modern” rather than “modern”? And you may know where I fall on my appreciation of this style, especially after my comments above, but this is really meant to be non-judgmental. ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 25th, 2020, 8:20 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and Perhaps Deconstructivism in the Characterization of Wine
Replies: 121
Views: 3075

Re: On the Lexicon of Traditionalism, Modernism and Post-Modernism in the Characterization of Wine

Modernism and postmodernism already mean different things in art criticism and in philosophy, literary and aesthetic theory. A lot of ink has been spilled to try to make the term postmodernism coherent, really to no avail. You should back away slowly and then run as fast as you can away from trying ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 23rd, 2020, 8:49 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: 1990 Raffault "Les Picasses"
Replies: 26
Views: 1700

Re: 1990 Raffault "Les Picasses"

I gave a dinner party a few days ago at which we had this, the 1990 Montrose and the 1996 Francesco Rinaldi Barolo. All of the wine showed well. Almost everyone thought the Raffault Picasses was the wine of the evening.
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 21st, 2020, 12:34 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment
Replies: 1321
Views: 76947

Re: US 25% tariff on European wines; 100% "digital" tariff on French products called off for the moment

The 25% tariff went into effect in October, and, as has been reported, wine prices remained fairly stable because importers and the domaines they worked with, together absorbed the hit. This happened before when the Euro went up astronomically and wine prices did not. No doubt, smaller importers and...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 16th, 2020, 7:52 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical
Replies: 35
Views: 1735

Re: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical

VD is not the Cambiest wine in his stable. And its change may indeed be due to global warming and the number of ripe vintages since 03. But the above tasting notes show all comments on heat to occur after 03 and 03-09 are vintages with some age on them at this point. For me, there is also a noticeab...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 16th, 2020, 7:47 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: How much wine did you consume in 2019?
Replies: 46
Views: 1976

Re: How much wine did you consume in 2019?

Is this just me or with my spouse? The short answer is that the two of us drink a bottle a day. We may miss some days and consume more on days when we are at or give a dinner party. But it probably comes down to that.
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 15th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical
Replies: 35
Views: 1735

Re: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical

Cambie lists himself as having started here in 00, though I think the change becomes noticeable with the 03, which might lead one to think that that was the date.
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 15th, 2020, 1:24 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical
Replies: 35
Views: 1735

Re: TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical

I remember being wowed by the 1990 in 02 when I visited the domaine. I'm not surprised it's still going strong.
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 15th, 2020, 7:39 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Replies: 39
Views: 2692

Re: 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Pape

Curious. My 2003s are marked 14%--well less than 15.4% but within the legal variance. I can't see the date on that bottle. Are you sure it's the 03? Perhaps Dan knows about label variance. I should say, by looking at my bottles from 00-07, that the alcohol markings seem to be by rote. Up to 03, they...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 13th, 2020, 8:24 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Replies: 39
Views: 2692

Re: 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Pape

ybarselah wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 7:48 am
pegau labeled at 13.5% lab tested at 15.4% - not sure labels are actually relevant to what's in the bottle?
Which Pegau are you speaking of? This wide a variance is beyond the legal limit. Maybe you mean labelled as 14.5?
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 11th, 2020, 8:03 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Replies: 39
Views: 2692

Re: 2007 Chateauneuf-du-Pape

I have great respect for Dan's palate, not only as I read his tasting notes here but from the wine he imports. As a fan of CdP, I have alsp developed a tolerance for high alcohol wines, though not a positive love for high alcohol. All that said, I have never to my knowledge had a wine that high in a...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 10th, 2020, 1:04 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Wine "budgeting" - tips?
Replies: 64
Views: 3241

Re: Wine "budgeting" - tips?

I don't know about holding down on acquisitions, but I find Nathan's advice about quality and price to be almost the opposite of the case. Although many very good wines cost $100 and more, the biggest uptick in quality is between the prices of $30 and $80 (with most being between $30 and $60). Over ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 8th, 2020, 4:13 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: The Ultimate Backfill Thread
Replies: 73
Views: 3823

Re: The Ultimate Backfill Thread

Over the past few years, I purchased all available bottles in the US of 2001 and 2004 Charvin CdP. 30 and 25 bottles, respectively. So now I know why as I was backfilling Charvin, the oldest I could obtain at a reasonable price was the 2006... [wink.gif] A quick look at winesearcher shows 05s and 0...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 7th, 2020, 1:43 pm
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: A scientist's view of the right Champagne glass
Replies: 36
Views: 1803

Re: A scientist's view of the right Champagne glass

I understood her to be saying that the movement of bubble and wine through the glass, the bubble machine as she says, was faster. But maybe she meant what you are saying.
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 7th, 2020, 11:45 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: A scientist's view of the right Champagne glass
Replies: 36
Views: 1803

Re: A scientist's view of the right Champagne glass

It's noticeable that she doesn't explain the determinants of the speed of displacement. It may be that the narrowness vs. width forces different speeds. I know we have physicists on the board who could answer this, but they may not be bubble experts, as this one is claimed to be. Given my ignorance ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 7th, 2020, 7:25 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?
Replies: 54
Views: 2874

Re: Is "Down the drain" the NEW HOBBY?

Corked wines go down the drain (although I have cooked with them when desperate and they work perfectly well for that; the TCA seems to burn off, though I have no idea why that happens). Wines I really don't like I cook with and I keep cooking wines for a very long time in the fridge and they still ...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 5th, 2020, 7:19 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Understanding the dumb phase and aging
Replies: 64
Views: 3153

Re: Understanding the dumb phase and aging

When it happens and why it happens is as much a mystery to me as to everyone else. But I have a pretty good idea of what I think it is. At some point in aging, the baby fat fruit recedes and what you are left with, for the moment at least, is tannin and acid. After some years, the fruit comes back o...
by Jonathan Loesberg
January 5th, 2020, 6:55 am
Forum: Wine Talk
Topic: Traditional CdP Producers - Now and Then
Replies: 131
Views: 5348

Re: Traditional CdP Producers - Now and Then

I agree completely about 94, 99, 04, 06, 08 (I like the PEgau 08 much more than Dan does and also like both Charvin and Ferrand) and, I would add, 11. I think I said this higher up. Of these vintages, the 06 is rather the anomaly, because it is frequently somewhat bigger and softer. But it is holdin...

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