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If you can take grapes from one continent to another and call them natural, why not yeast? Some strains are isolated for the fruity esters they produce. That's probably the biggest difference in "style" between "Old World" and "New World" wines. If the native yeasts do their job in every way, there...

I have seen a couple of early tasting notes describe it as sweet. I realize that dosage isn't the be-all, end-all of sweetness in sparklers, but do people have ideas as to why a fairly low-dosage sparkler would taste sweet? Ripeness of the fruit and the level of dosage, it's the combination. I've h...

I think I got a sneak peek of this when Kevin was the guest of honor at a Rhys themed dinner back in September. It reminded me more of a Gose than a sparkler from a flavor profile. I like Gose in general. Maybe it was not a primo bottle. I didn't get that at all. It was a bit low key in an Anderson...

Wouldn't any wine taste odd if it had already been opened, then poured into another bottle, and just recorked? Or would one expect 6 months in a re-corked bottle to not make a meaningful difference in the quality of the wine? I know that you are supposed to recork wines after 25 years, but I would ...

Mount Eden
Ridge
I. Brand
Martin Ranch Therese Vineyards
Woodside Vineyards Estate
Lexington

John Morris wrote: ↑
December 5th, 2019, 3:23 pm
Jim Clendenen is making some very impressive nebbiolos under his Clendenden Family label. Would love to try a Wind Gap!

Yes! The '08 Clendenen Family is probably the best CA Neb I've had. The Fogarty ones from their Gist Vyd. and Idlewild are a couple other faves.

We sourced Neb from Luna Matta from '08 to '16, blending it with another west side Paso vineyard through '14. It's an excellent site. Limestone with a cool coastal influence.

Giornata gets their Neb and some other stuff from there. Label co-owner Stefi is also the vineyard manager for that site.

FINAL HARRINGTON WINES OPEN HOUSE and Sale, Saturday December 7th, 1 - 4pm barel spikes-3 This is it. Our last Open House and your last shot at unreal prices on all of our wines. As it turns out, our first sparkling wine is also our last Harrington wine release. With this email, we are offering Pet ...

Please note December 7th is Saturday, not Sunday.

Kelly Walker wrote: ↑
November 20th, 2019, 10:55 am
Nathan, an interesting take. What makes Gallo Evil , Inc.? Did they do something truly evil or just the assumption that large corporations are inherently evil?

They've been one of the major players being the anti-wine shipping lobby.

The only thing that is certain is that what they were drinking was nothing at all like those made today. One reason is that today they're usually done in stainless steel, which didn't exist then. As Ken mentioned, ours was about 20% skin fermented. That was sort of out of necessity. It's a late rip...

Therein lies the appeal of "natural wine" to many. New-ish to wine. Conventional wines they tried weren't exciting to them. Mass-produced garbage. Wines made to age, which don't show their best on release. Wines stylistically following those, being heavy, dull, oaky, then perhaps trying to overcome ...

https://grapecollective.com/articles/wi ... Ptxd5F9qeQ

The only thing that is certain is that what they were drinking was nothing at all like those made today. One reason is that today they're usually done in stainless steel, which didn't exist then. As Ken mentioned, ours was about 20% skin fermented. That was sort of out of necessity. It's a late rip...

I agree with Otto and Mel. Different compounds extract at different thresholds of alcohol percentage. But, note that not every woody/tannic/harsh/bitter compound we may taste in a wine that seems like it came from oak, did come from oak. Add to that, clearly not all high ABV wines have that harsh bi...

And by the way, how come the acidity remains at the same level every year? In Mosel the TA of a Riesling can be almost doubled/halved even in consecutive vintages. Only if you adjust for the acidity and check it out that makes sense, otherwise you can never trust fully what the plants give you. As ...

Often when your receptors are overwhelmed by something your perception goes off the charts, so to speak. You get too much of a taste or tactile sensation, you can no longer perceive it for what it is. Like a curve spiking to infinity. Like screaming feedback. Too much of a taste you like can, instea...

Re sweetness "developing" in maturing wines, I'd guess in most cases that's just a perception thing. Tannin resolves to the point that small degree of sweetness is no longer masked. There's also the illusion of sweetness in some wines due to aromas we associate with sweetness. If the wine's mouthfee...

If I say it, I mean it.....and I'll say why. Usually that is a serious flaw that would cause an involuntary physical reaction. I haven't seen DNPIM (do not put in mouth) used here for a long time, but that's more about the wine smelling so bad that discretion rules. But, there are non-flawed wines t...

I thought that there are two (or more?) different kinds of acids in wine, one of which fades/softens over the years and one which stays more consistent... EDIT: Winefolly states the following: "Often, during the aging process a wine’s malic acid is converted to lactic acid (in a process called Malo...

In other words, it sounds like how I projected a sound bottle would show, through the lens of the flawed bottle I had.

Eisele Vineyard Estate? Chateau Latour purchased Eisele from Araujo, so this makes the most sense to me. Awesome, I did not know that. I’d go that route for sure. Definitely the same style. The only issue is one would be the maturity level of a '96 Latour. It's interesting to note more Eisele is so...

Still in.

My question is about this bizarre tangent that derailed the conversation. From my tasting of a flawed '17, I perceived an array of components that it had in common with the '16. I didn't experience either wine in the "too young" stage. I didn't get notable carbonic character in any, which is somethi...

That's The Old Clam House, which has been there since 1861. A three block walk from Mansfield-Dunne. Originally a waterfront spot, now quite a bit of landfill away. No corkage.

Not what I asked. Do you get carbonic character on the '16 now? Did you a year ago? Surely on release. Is the degree of carbonic character THE reason they are different? Or, is it mostly vintage differences? Something else? Is it reasonable for someone to state they are the same style? If I made a P...

D@vid Bu3ker wrote: ↑
November 13th, 2019, 7:34 pm
You really are making no sense. I get a strong feeling that you have an axe to grind.

Do you think, despite Pax saying the "The composition is similar, the concept is identical and the wine is absolutely delicious." in comparing the '17 to the '16, that the wines are a different style?

Reminder open house is Sunday. Have a decent crew of Berskerserkers from the South Bay and Penninsula headed up to the tasting. We'll be headed to Harrington first and then over the August West/Mansfield-Dunne. For anyone interested, the Mansfield-Dunne open house starts at noon, Harrington starts ...

D@vid Bu3ker wrote: ↑
November 13th, 2019, 5:03 pm
There are significant differences between the two vintages. You are not making the discussion any easier as you conveniently ignore those differences.

So much so that half the people trying it find the '17 flawed, but are wrong. Got it.

Since you're compiling a list, Tessier is very good. Also from Barsotti.

Wes, I dig your comments but you're really pretty funny. The low SO2 should not be the issue - or one could use that argument that there was zero in the 2016 Let's share a bottle soon please . . . Cheers Something went wrong. I'd suggested that there a lot of possibilities why, but bacteria took of...

Wes, Thanks for the reply. Pax was pretty clear that 17 was not fully carbonic but 16 was. That alone would create a marked different wine, no? I think we just need to share a few bottles when we get together next . . . You're going in circles on a tangent. The issue is the low SO2 caused bottle va...

Wes, Still waiting on hearing back from Pax on the bottle variation issue. Though lower than usual SO2 could cause bottle variation, have you noticed the same phenomenon in the 2016, which was sans soufre? I think it's great to have 'opinions' about these things, but to come off with complete certa...

ESJ is the benchmark in California. Plantings are expanding in CA and OR, where it's kind of a new thing. Kind of, as in the potential is recognized in both states. What's good is it's a geeky thing, not following market demand from some movie about slovenly sad sack drunks. So, the producers who ar...

Sean_S wrote: ↑
November 12th, 2019, 10:34 pm
and BTW: 2 open house(s) in the city on Sunday. Harrington/CB Cellars and August West/Sandler/Mannsfield Dunne/Cellar 33/Highlawn

3 Berserker Day participants. August West is noon-4, Harrington is 1-4. About a 5 minute drive apart.

Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow wrote: ↑
November 12th, 2019, 1:44 pm
...12 years past my point of ignorance, of course....

Not what I said.

Wes, Thanks for the reply. Pax was pretty clear that 17 was not fully carbonic but 16 was. That alone would create a marked different wine, no? I think we just need to share a few bottles when we get together next . . . You're going in circles on a tangent. The issue is the low SO2 caused bottle va...

Larry, you were challenging my perception from tasting them that the main difference was the flaws, then vintage variation. Again, Pax's own note: "The composition is similar, the concept is identical and the wine is absolutely delicious." So, you're the one who's speculating. I see Pax noting carbo...

And a bit more info from Pax, comparing the two vintages: 16 was san soufre... 17 has a free of <20ppm> both are unfixed & unfiltered. 2016 should improve until 2023 and last a long while... 2017 is more dense and has bigger fruit and will improve til 2025 at least, although I don't seeing it makin...

The problem is "random" to the degree that the corks' abilities to make good seals at the bottle necks is "random" because a cork is a natural , irregular product. Overdrying them in a kiln will randomly create too- rigid corks as the amount of drying any given cork can take is variable. If the goa...

Michael S. Monie wrote: ↑
November 11th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Jerry Hey wrote: ↑
November 11th, 2019, 2:25 pm
"If" premox is solely due to a cork issue, then why aren't red wines affected at that same rate, or even at all??
I asked the same on post #73 but apparently no one thinks it's relevant.

If white wines are made the same as red, why do they oxidize during fermentation?

Need to define the problem first and foremost. What is "premox"? I say it is the universe of bad bottles randomly mixed in with wines that are fine in any given group. All these other factors are for vulnerablity. But, vulnerable wines are not "premoxed" wines if they are fine. Unless one focuses o...

There had been a lot in the Hecker Pass area. The legendary charming weasel grape broker down there used to sneak a bunch into the lots he sold to unsuspecting winemakers. Birichino makes one from the Besson Vyd.

But, does the Diam "solve" the problem, or just greatly diminish the failure rate of highly vulnerable risky wines? Don't know how reliable this is, but I've heard specifics about how producers have actually solved the problem without compromising wine quality or style. They do a few more steps than...

Ive been thinking its just a polarizing wine. Nope. The '16 and '17 are the same style. Some people have had both good and bad bottles of the '17. The '17 we had was definitely flawed. We just don't know why there's variation (but are aware of multiple possibilities). so do you think if im typicall...

I was leaning towards Syrah. Bet it's got some, and a good deal of stem inclusion.

Marcus Goodfellow wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2019, 6:24 pm
Sean,

Any chance Ed wants to trade a 6-pack?

Pinged him.

Here's the first of a few threads on this wine: https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=155798 Post #6 notes the '17 being carbonic, from someone who tasted it at the winery. From an impression or something specifically stated..? Post #7 notes the '16 being low sulfur. Post #15 has the ...

Thank's for pointing out the links. The tech sheet TNs are very similar. I see Vinous noted some differences, but chalked them up to vintage. Jeb Dunnuck, interestingly noted the '17 was "Reminding me of a san soufre Saint Joseph" and gave it only 90 pts. They don't look like they were describing th...

The '18 should be out soon, so you can compare that. Do we really need to go in circles? 1) I asked for links after not seeing any info on their site, and didn't get any. 2) Not on both wines on release sound about the same. 3) Notes on sound bottles about 9 months out sounds about the same. 4) The ...

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