Wine Berserkers - international wine social media, online community, and discussion

A Songeur wrote: ↑
October 29th, 2020, 6:55 am
I am sleeping on a few Jouan Clos Saint Denis 2012... (Clos St denis is one of my favorite Grand Cru so I also have a few Bertagna 09/12/16, Castagnier, Ponsot... )

You might enjoy drinking one now, honestly. And I say this as a proselyte for the merits of old wine.

Chris Barton wrote: ↑
October 29th, 2020, 8:38 am
I defer to William!

Please don't, I'll get into bad habits.

I would describe the style as rather old-fashioned, emphasizing supple tannins and earthy but generous fruit. Viticulture is resolutely "conventional", but they have great old vine holdings in top sites. Winemaking is quite classic, with destemming, three-week cuvaison, and basket pressing. Elevage ...

Tasted a great example of this grape, the 2019 Bourgogne Aligoté En Coulezain from Les Horées, a new micro-project in Burgundy the other day. Still no website, even, but you will want to make a mental note of this name for the future! You heard it here first...

It's a fun quiz, though there are some questionable questions: - the idea that the use of wild yeasts and old oak barrels is "relatively standard" is very naive - use of cold soaks, shorter macerations and more pump-overs are hardly a "direct" result of climate change but rather a human response to ...

Just opened a corked 1989 from my cellar! Too bad...

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote: ↑
October 24th, 2020, 6:12 am
Does clement make both the boillot and Barthod wines?

Yes.

They're generally not. Supposedly her son has been doing some of the winemaking (which could explain early drinking 17s), but in my experience drinking Barthod young was downright painful. Clément is indeed making the wines but Ghislaine and Louis are both very much present and involved still. I do...

Sean S y d n e y wrote: ↑
October 19th, 2020, 2:04 pm
I know you mentioned offhand that there was a (Spanish?) producer of cork that DRC and some others used that had a great track record, I’d be interested to know more.

DRC have quite a few different cork suppliers, but they do not use the one in question, in fact!

I appreciate this perspective, but if a producer of white wine in Burgundy - especially one of the most respected names in the region whose bottles sell for a pretty penny - is using anything but DIAM on their entire range of wines, it's approaching negligence. I understand the point you're trying ...

No, I haven't. I bought based on what I read and that's why I said,"relative short term" knowing it's going to need some bottle time. I felt likewise about the 2012 when I tried it. I've purchased every vintage since the 2006 with the exception of 2010. (I've had the 2011 en magnum twice and though...

I'm wondering what it is that I really enjoy about, say, Bereche vs something "cleaner" so to speak. Is it time spent on lees? PN and PM vs Chard? Age in general? I haven't been able to narrow it down. If you like Bérêche a lot, I would infer that you appreciate barrel fermented but still quite aci...

For my money, I'd go with the 2013 Pierre Peters Les Chetillions which can be enjoyed in the relatively short term, but will certainly go the distance for you. Did you try it yet? I had it at the winery yesterday (we ended up doing a mini-vertical back to 1969, which was a lot of fun) and I'd say i...

Sean S y d n e y wrote: ↑
October 12th, 2020, 10:26 am
Probably the LMHB.

Big +1 (from someone who lives and works in Burgundy)

Gelin does a very fine Beze too, and used to also have a Mazi, but they are quite rustic and need proper aging to come around. They are to my liking, but if you find Faiveley wines of old to be a bit rustic for your tastes, then you may not care for Gelin. I'd say they've become a lot more polished...

Gelin does a very fine Beze too, and used to also have a Mazi, but they are quite rustic and need proper aging to come around. They are to my liking, but if you find Faiveley wines of old to be a bit rustic for your tastes, then you may not care for Gelin. I'd say they've become a lot more polished...

Keith Levenberg wrote: ↑
October 10th, 2020, 12:35 pm
Not many Vosne 1ers with the Richebourg profile

Lalou once said something to the effect of Beaux Monts being the little brother of Richebourg, and there is lots of sense to it; but equally Leroy Beaux Monts is far from an affordable alternative.

The richebourg lacks the finesse of other offerings. It definitely has classic richebourg power and density but is a bit clunky. Not a fan at the price point, which is low and likely it’s only real redeeming quality. I’d rather have half as many bottles of AF gros or Hudelot or 1/4 as many bottles ...

Matt Fleming wrote: ↑
October 8th, 2020, 3:20 am
Look for producers with holdings in les Treux.

I think the notion that Les Treux is the best climat within Echézeaux has more to do with Henri Jayer telling people that (coincidentally, his vines were located there) than with any of its inherent properties.

The wine was disgorged in April this year, and it is labelled "V18". Because of the rules you cite, it can't be labelled "Vintage/Millésime 2018", but it derives entirely from the 2018 vintage and for simplicity's sake that's how I refer to it! Just went to visit Cédric yesterday. As well as a verti...

The richebourg lacks the finesse of other offerings. It definitely has classic richebourg power and density but is a bit clunky. Not a fan at the price point, which is low and likely it’s only real redeeming quality. I’d rather have half as many bottles of AF gros or Hudelot or 1/4 as many bottles ...

Just went to visit Cédric yesterday. As well as a vertical of Creux d'Enfer, a stunning magnum of 2008 Ursules (the best mature Bouchard wine I ever tasted, surpassing high expectations), and a few other bottles, we tried the newly-released 2018 Val Vilaine. It's super demonstrative and fleshy, whil...

Andrew K. wrote: ↑
October 2nd, 2020, 4:40 pm
I heard production was down 30-50% in 2018 over 2017.

Anyone tasted? Anyone confirm the lower production theory?

This is definitely not the case!

william, do you have any comments regarding the henri germain monopole? The Henri Germain monopole is the (other) Clos des Mouches, which is red Meursault, not Chassagne-Montrachet! [oops.gif] what is the relation with chateau de chorey by the way? same germain? I assumed it was a trick question [r...

Howard Cooper wrote: ↑
October 4th, 2020, 4:06 am
IMHO Chaignots is not even their best premier cru.

I was trying to stay on topic, however!

In this age of wines being bottled with very high levels of by no means always obvious CO2, however, the gas must be vigorously dissipated. Yes, this has really becoming a thing, and there are a couple of consultant enologists who make a point of gassing the wines to a particular level before bottl...

m. ristev wrote: ↑
October 3rd, 2020, 3:28 pm

william, do you have any comments regarding the henri germain monopole?

The Henri Germain monopole is the (other) Clos des Mouches, which is red Meursault, not Chassagne-Montrachet!

I would argue that the innate qualities of wines from the NSG terroir do not reach grand cru status no matter how impressive they are as examples of their vineyards. I have had bottles of '30s Nuits from Thomas Bassot, 1940s Gouges, magical Chevillon old and young, Lalou's Boudots, and even, frankl...

William. You are a lucky man to have that wine. I can only imagine. They really do age great especially that bottling (Clos de la Boudriotte) from Ramonet. Cheers. My tasting note (given that the wine is very far from being on the market, I can't think any of our subscribers will object to my shari...

I buy and drink Ramonet and Niellon consistently, what are thoughts on other producers like Colin, Maltroye, Drouhin, Bouchard, Latour, Girardin, Morey-Coffinet, Amiot, and Gagnard. The red Chassagne producers I purchase for my own cellar are: Ramonet Bernard Moreau Jean-Claude Bachelet Hubert Lamy...

Haven't had them, but I've read and heard anecdotally that Clos des Lambrays is often a bit of a miss. The old Clos des Lambrays wines of the 1910s, 1920s, 1930s and 1940s are about as good as Burgundy gets! Honestly, these debates often end up being rather arid, as anywhere on the Côte d'Or is qui...

William. You are a lucky man to have that wine. I can only imagine. They really do age great especially that bottling (Clos de la Boudriotte) from Ramonet. Cheers. My tasting note (given that the wine is very far from being on the market, I can't think any of our subscribers will object to my shari...

1979 Clos de la Boudriotte was truly beautiful a couple of weeks ago!

Jim F wrote: ↑
September 30th, 2020, 1:11 pm
There have been some good ones! Heck, it’s stablemate d’armhailac is an impressive drink with a few years of age.

1999 d'Armailhac is so much better than it has any right to be!

By virtue of its elder sibling it's always going to be somewhat in a shadow, but there were years, such as (the especially good) 1990, where it has gone head to head with Mouton. And Mouton's new winemaker was previously in charge of Clerc Milon, it's worth noting.

Jamie Kutch wrote: ↑
September 28th, 2020, 10:03 am

I always knew the whole cluster made lower alcohol wines. That said, I never know it made for a reduction of nearly 1 degree!

For several people I have spoken to, that was the case in Burgundy, too, this year!

Kirk.Grant wrote: ↑
September 27th, 2020, 7:55 pm
I think it would be wonderful to have the ability to buy directly from these & many more...but these are the top 5.

Keller
Coche Dury
Henri Jouan
Pierre Peters
Roagna

After years of being extremely cheap, Jouan is actually rather expensive now ex-Domaine.

IlkkaL wrote: ↑
September 26th, 2020, 9:47 am

William Kelley wrote: ↑
September 26th, 2020, 9:40 am
Bunch of miscellaneous stuff including:

1966 Château Pibarnon Bandol
1964 Château l'Eglise Clinet
1926 Château Haut-Brion
1959 Rapet Corton-Charlemagne
Looked a lot like Pradeaux on IG!

Ha, you're quite right!

Bunch of miscellaneous stuff including:

1966 Château Pibarnon Bandol
1964 Château l'Eglise Clinet
1926 Château Haut-Brion
1959 Rapet Corton-Charlemagne

Are they really making their reserves that much different these days? Oh absolutely! As I mentioned above, in the 1970s they used rotofermenters. I think the 1973 was the first vintage they used those. They tried pretty much everything once over the years. As Tim got more involved, they moved to in...

1975 as I recall has quite a lot of mountain fruit in the blend. Higher acid than the 1974, and at this stage I'd say more consistently good.

Funny thing is, these wines were made with rotofermenters...

Opened a 2001 Coche Bourgogne Rouge, delicious bottle just at the beginning of its drinking window.

Best was when I started covering Champagne: "mousse" was being corrected to "mouse". I only noticed a few days before my first big article was due to publish....

Indirectly related to this thread, but I'd be curious to know which wines have been confirmed to be held back by estates compared to the release date of their other wines. Mugnier Musigny is a known one, but Roulot is now also holding back their Meursault Perrières in 2018. I am not aware of others...

I would go for the Forman!

Just double-decanted a pristine bottle of 1982 Pichon Lalande to drink with 80-day dry aged Galician beef, along with a few other 1982s! Amazing how 1982s that have never travelled are frequently still on the young side, whereas those that have served time on the auction circuit often taste fully ma...

Good to read this! I have a 750 of the Engel Clos Vougeot, bottled by a French négociant, lined up to open soon...

I found some of the whites to have a bit of an “exotic “ characteristic that I attributed to botrytis. I recently had the 08 Coche PM Enseigneres that was really in the drinking zone: 9/8/2020 rated 94 points: Popped and poured. Very young and vibrant. Nose shows white flowers, spice and lemon infu...

Many producers had very, very long malolactic fermentations. I think this is the key point to understanding why the vintage is heterogenous. The malos were very hard to get finished (one producer I know had 8 grams per liter malic acid in one of their Vosne-Romanée 1er crus). As a result, the wines...

6x 2018 Coche Meursault Rouge
12x 2018 Coche Meursault
2x 2018 Coche Genvrières
1x 2015 Coche Corton-Charlemagne

Looking forward to, twenty years from now, being able to open mature Coche for young wine lovers who have no way to taste it....

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