ha, thank you!! His name is Henry BTW, a very adorable Border Collie that chases birds out of our vineyard . . . And I volunteer him to be the official dog of the Wine Berserker Board!
That would be great - except that I prefer this one (with my daughter). Good thing he isn't in your vineyards, as the mockingbirds here chase him out of our yard.
_________________ Bruce
"I do not believe that Washington should do for the people what they can do for themselves through local and private effort." - John F. Kennedy
Last edited by B Stucker on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:39 am Posts: 1441 Location: Marshall, TX & Dallas, TX
Anybody have a link to the WSJ article for those of us who don't live on the wine boards? I'm generally aware of the controversy, but don't subscribe to the journal and don't' have the patience or interest to slog through all the longer threads.
An important fact you omitted. Does your town of Westport pay for the blog or does the 1st Selectman. If the town pays, with taxpayer dollars, I believe his actions are very inappropriate.
If, however, the blog is on his dime, I have no problem with his actions. I would say "Start your own blog and advertise it to your citizenry as an altrnative to his". Then you can attack the guy all you like!
Since ultimately the cost of the board is paid for by WA subscriber dollars (I think that's a pretty valid premise), it's almost exactly like using taxpayer dollars. If Parker/WA doesn't deduct the cost of eBob and the Squires board (in other words, it is truly "on his dime") as a business expense, I stand corrected.
_________________ "Redwoods talk to me Say it plainly The human name Doesn't mean shit to a tree." Grace Slick
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:37 pm Posts: 366 Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
B Stucker wrote:
NickWittman wrote:
ha, thank you!! His name is Henry BTW, a very adorable Border Collie that chases birds out of our vineyard . . . And I volunteer him to be the official dog of the Wine Berserker Board!
That would be great - except that I prefer this one (with my daughter). Good thing he isn't in your vineyards, as the mockingbirds here chase him out of our yard.
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:37 pm Posts: 366 Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
Mike Miller wrote:
Anybody have a link to the WSJ article for those of us who don't live on the wine boards? I'm generally aware of the controversy, but don't subscribe to the journal and don't' have the patience or interest to slog through all the longer threads.
Anybody have a link to the WSJ article for those of us who don't live on the wine boards? I'm generally aware of the controversy, but don't subscribe to the journal and don't' have the patience or interest to slog through all the longer threads.
Ed - that's a heartfelt post and probably sums up 85% of people.
The problem is, RP (for whatever reason) has tied his horse to the cart of the Squires board and won't let go. He can't be blind to the fact that essentially no one gets along with Mark, that just about everyone thinks he moderates with a ridiculously heavy hand and that his paranoia runs at Defcon 12. So I wonder why RP is yearning for the "old days of the Prodigy board" - when it's clear it's 2009, information flows like wine and HE (rather than bloggers) is like the Taliban, clinging to the old rather than embracing the new and encouraging more heavy handed moderation.
Ed - that's a heartfelt post and probably sums up 85% of people.
The problem is, RP (for whatever reason) has tied his horse to the cart of the Squires board and won't let go. He can't be blind to the fact that essentially no one gets along with Mark, that just about everyone thinks he moderates with a ridiculously heavy hand and that his paranoia runs at Defcon 12. So I wonder why RP is yearning for the "old days of the Prodigy board" - when it's clear it's 2009, information flows like wine and HE (rather than bloggers) is like the Taliban, clinging to the old rather than embracing the new and encouraging more heavy handed moderation.
It's all rather sad.
Agreed it's like talking to a wall. However, perhaps using BOB's own words will allow it to stick a little longer?
_________________ It's not the event, it's the reaction to the event!
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 7:49 pm Posts: 1652 Location: Connecticut
Gordon Fitz wrote:
C. Grimm;
An important fact you omitted. Does your town of Westport pay for the blog or does the 1st Selectman. If the town pays, with taxpayer dollars, I believe his actions are very inappropriate.
If, however, the blog is on his dime, I have no problem with his actions. I would say "Start your own blog and advertise it to your citizenry as an altrnative to his". Then you can attack the guy all you like!
The unfortunate reality is that it is a site that has firmly established itself as the local news source. A couple of other people have launched alternatives, but none have gotten much momentum because the other is so clearly established.
I appreciate the idea that someone can do what they want with their bb/blog, but that the idea that the mayor controls news reporting and not only stifles specific criticism but mutes critics altogether is more than distasteful to me.
But I get that most things depend on whose ox is being gored and, in this example, the ox is mine.
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:42 pm Posts: 8683 Location: Delmar, NY
Anybody know Scott Lorin? This is a very nice post:
Quote:
When it comes to crisis management, everything was done textbook wrong on this board...
for things to move forward, i suggest several things -
1. keep one open thread and allow members to air their grievances and greater responsiveness to their questions by the WA 2. LISTEN to your board members, dont disparage them 3. greater participation by RP 4. reduce the heavy handed management of this board
For some life will just go on here. For others, they will never return. But for the rest of us, to continue participation, some things are going to have to change... Ultimately, the only way to get management to listen is by not renewing your subscription. I'm a paying customer and I dont plan to renew unless things change.
Thanks! (Hope it sticks.) Glad to see you over here. I've always loved your posts and your passion for wine.
Ed,
I am willing to bet that, as long as it remains civil, it will stay there. I could be wrong but there could be change in the air.
You're wrong.
Re-read RPs sticky. Basically disparaging dissenters in the name of ranters, jihadists and losers on the Internet. They've learned nothing from this. Absolutely nothing.
Thanks! (Hope it sticks.) Glad to see you over here. I've always loved your posts and your passion for wine.
Ed,
I am willing to bet that, as long as it remains civil, it will stay there. I could be wrong but there could be change in the air.
You're wrong.
Re-read RPs sticky. Basically disparaging dissenters in the name of ranters, jihadists and losers on the Internet. They've learned nothing from this. Absolutely nothing.
Peter, that was the position that I came from in posting on that thread. I attempted to expose to them the ultimate reality of that poorly conceived position. Several posters whom I have never heard of before, seemed distressed at my conclusion and wanted Parker's imput. Why, it was Parker's dumb conclusion that got us here in allowing this nightmare. I hope he sees it for what it is. If not, party with us boys and girls.
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 1:17 am Posts: 86 Location: Palatine, Illinois
OK I can not hold out any longer. I have read almost everything from all parties about this issue. Most resently I read Parkers reply to the WSJ but toning while surfing I found a post from Jay miller himself stating "I had dinner with the Rollands and a number of other people including Alan Shoup at Long Shadows in Walla Walla about a week ago where Rolland had come to put together the final blend for his wine (predominantly Merlot) that he makes at Long Shadows." I mean what the Fu## He reviews Washington!!! again if you take meals and entertainment from the people you review you can not state and I belive you are not unbiased in your reviews!! If as Parker stated in his reply he has discussed the bad choices and displained miller a while ago how and this type of event not be addressed. What a sham, For me I can now only look at all information from this publication as tainted.
OK I can not hold out any longer. I have read almost everything from all parties about this issue. Most resently I read Parkers reply to the WSJ but toning while surfing I found a post from Jay miller himself stating "I had dinner with the Rollands and a number of other people including Alan Shoup at Long Shadows in Walla Walla about a week ago where Rolland had come to put together the final blend for his wine (predominantly Merlot) that he makes at Long Shadows." I mean what the Fu## He reviews Washington!!! again if you take meals and entertainment from the people you review you can not state and I belive you are not unbiased in your reviews!! If as Parker stated in his reply he has discussed the bad choices and displained miller a while ago how and this type of event not be addressed. What a sham, For me I can now only look at all information from this publication as tainted.
Welcome, Larry! You should definitely post this in the other RMP thread here in Berserker WT, as this thread was somewhat of a spoof on all the other threads regarding this issue.
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 1:17 am Posts: 86 Location: Palatine, Illinois
OK I can not hold out any longer. I have read almost everything from all parties about this issue. Most resently I read Parkers reply to the WSJ but toning while surfing I found a post from Jay miller himself stating "I had dinner with the Rollands and a number of other people including Alan Shoup at Long Shadows in Walla Walla about a week ago where Rolland had come to put together the final blend for his wine (predominantly Merlot) that he makes at Long Shadows." I mean what the Fu## He reviews Washington!!! again if you take meals and entertainment from the people you review you can not state and I belive you are not unbiased in your reviews!! If as Parker stated in his reply he has discussed the bad choices and displained miller a while ago how and this type of event not be addressed. What a sham, For me I can now only look at all information from this publication as tainted.
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 1:17 am Posts: 86 Location: Palatine, Illinois
thank you I have reposted this but am really outraged and just disappointed that an resource i use to use abd trust has become nothing more than an advertisment for thoses that can afford to entertain their way to a score.
OK I can not hold out any longer. I have read almost everything from all parties about this issue. Most resently I read Parkers reply to the WSJ but toning while surfing I found a post from Jay miller himself stating "I had dinner with the Rollands and a number of other people including Alan Shoup at Long Shadows in Walla Walla about a week ago where Rolland had come to put together the final blend for his wine (predominantly Merlot) that he makes at Long Shadows." I mean what the Fu## He reviews Washington!!! again if you take meals and entertainment from the people you review you can not state and I belive you are not unbiased in your reviews!! If as Parker stated in his reply he has discussed the bad choices and displained miller a while ago how and this type of event not be addressed. What a sham, For me I can now only look at all information from this publication as tainted.
Bob said he "disciplined" Big J. Must have been really harsh.
_________________ "Redwoods talk to me Say it plainly The human name Doesn't mean shit to a tree." Grace Slick
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:09 pm Posts: 6983 Location: OC, CA
Thanks for helping the problem of too many threads on the subject by creating another, especially in Wine Talk. This is Merged into the other with similar title.
We have the Bashing Thread for those with the need to trash another board or Parker. Please keeps these threads to discussions of critics and integrity there of.
Gracias!
_________________ WetRock
boresomesauce
"I had taken two finger-bowls of champagne and the scene had changed before my eyes into something significant, elemental, and profound." - F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby
In reading this thread, one can make a short list of people that have come here, while possibly not really one of us, or interested in this board flourishing, or even making it, for that matter.
I won't post my list....................... But I think it's fairly obvious.
Just my opinion.
_________________ Best,
Steve ______________________________________________________________
Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure of the former." ~Albert Einstein
In reading this thread, one can make a short list of people that have come here, while possibly not really one of us, or interested in this board flourishing, or even making it, for that matter.
I won't post my list....................... But I think it's fairly obvious.
Just my opinion.
_________________ "I'm not drunk! I am a victim of hazardous working conditions!"
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:50 pm Posts: 967 Location: Houston, Texas
RP's sticky note continues to perpetuate the same problems. The closing paragraph is cause for particularly concern:
"Even if the result of all this is a smaller board, if it’s a more intimate and civilized community focused on quality wine, it will be well worth the effort. Until we get there I believe many of you will agree that things have gotten out of control so I’m posting this on a closed but sticky thread to encourage everyone to read what I’ve written without any distractions from people who want to dominate the discussions and who clearly don’t want these thoughts to be your focus."
So basically they are going to bounce people who they decide aren't contributing to the BB as they would like to see it? That seems like an awfully free hand being given to some folks who don't have the nicest track record (particularly recently) for being open to opposing viewpoints.
I can't even find where one might post suggestions about how to make the BB better ... It's also disheartening to see him allude to people with "agendas" yet won't name them. What the heck? Call people out and be done with it. Don't play these silly backroom games.
My automatic renewal was due May 30. I canceled instead.
In Parker's defense, I sense that there are agendas at work here, but they are a lot more sinister than anyone is willing to admit.
I also think that no one would care who Jay Miller engorges himself with if only he could taste worth a damn and his recommendations could be trusted.
EDITED TO ADD: Also, Parker swung hard and missed on a lot of Australian wines, giving huge points about eight or ten years ago to wines which have now fallen apart and are undrinkable.
Which is not to say that all Australian wines will fall apart - there are plenty of Australian wines which will go the distance.
But I suspect that Parker's approach to the emerging markets - sit down and "power taste" through 100 wines in a two or three hour session - spending no more than 30 or 60 seconds on any particular wine - is not a good technique for predicting ageworthiness.
Now in fairness to Parker, he DOES take the correct approach with Bordeaux, where he will follow a bottle for up to two weeks to watch its oxidation curve - but I suspect that with many of the Australian [and Spanish] wines, Parker was in such a hurry that he never stuck around to see that the wines had fallen apart on Day Two or Day Three.
The big difference between Parker & Miller is that the emerging market wines which Parker recommended tended to taste good [even if they fell apart after a year or two in the cellar], whereas the wines that Miller recommends tend to taste BAD.
So with Miller you get a double whammy - not only will the wines fall apart shortly after you purchase them, but they also taste bad from the get-go.
PS: A very similar thing happened with the 1998 Pavie, which got a monster score in an old Hedonist Gazette article, but which has since fallen apart and is now largely undrinkable.
Last edited by Nathan Smyth on Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:14 pm Posts: 290 Location: Bay Area
J B a s k a m wrote:
"...The problem, contrary to what you describe, is not that I hit back too hard, but that I don't hit back often enough..." - MS
That is a tough one.
He just doesn't get it. The thread really was being used in a positive way, grievances being aired, opinions and dialogue being exchanged in a civil manner, but then one post changes it.
OK I can not hold out any longer. I have read almost everything from all parties about this issue. Most resently I read Parkers reply to the WSJ but toning while surfing I found a post from Jay miller himself stating "I had dinner with the Rollands and a number of other people including Alan Shoup at Long Shadows in Walla Walla about a week ago where Rolland had come to put together the final blend for his wine (predominantly Merlot) that he makes at Long Shadows." I mean what the Fu## He reviews Washington!!! again if you take meals and entertainment from the people you review you can not state and I belive you are not unbiased in your reviews!! If as Parker stated in his reply he has discussed the bad choices and displained miller a while ago how and this type of event not be addressed. What a sham, For me I can now only look at all information from this publication as tainted.
Hi, first post so I would like to greet everyone first. I have read some of the threads with the limited time I have (got to work also) and found it hilarious how some people started to defend Jay Miller out right considering the whole controversy that is happening now in eBob. People started being sarcastic and saying that Jay should live in a cell isolated from the world, taking it to an extreme and mocking the original point, pathetic arguments if you ask me.
IMHO the role of a critic is very serious, your job is to pass judgement as impartially as possible. Having social dinners with winemakers and and people who own wineries is really threading the line. IMHO it should be avoided totally. Just look at our legal system, those who are trusted to pass "Judgement" on our fellow man. How would you feel if one of the Jury members had dinner with the defendant at their house? Well it was potluck anyway so that doesn't count right? I know that this example is extreme and is mostly silly, but it is not 100% ridiculous. If you take the role of a critic, be prepared to make sacrifices for the sake of your impartiallity. If that means having very limited interaction with winemakers and winery owners than so be it. Chatting with winemakers at a trade event is totally fine, so is making visits to the winery to inspect and learn more about the wine. But all this interaction should be taken very seriously and the critic should always err on the side of caution rather than on the side of social interaction.
I am surprised that RP being a lawyer himself does not see the similarities of the legal judge and jury system to that of a professional critic. Albeit the case for the later is a much less grave undertaking, it still requires quite a level of seriousness as your "judgement" does affect the lives of people especially those in the wine business. You owe it to all the wineries you review to be as impartial as humanly possible.
Joe
Last edited by J. Galang on Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:45 pm Posts: 12140 Location: The Former Home Of The Dallas Cowboys
Chris Buddress wrote:
J B a s k a m wrote:
"...The problem, contrary to what you describe, is not that I hit back too hard, but that I don't hit back often enough..." - MS
That is a tough one.
He just doesn't get it. The thread really was being used in a positive way, grievances being aired, opinions and dialogue being exchanged in a civil manner, but then one post changes it.
What did you expect? It is his world and he is ALWAYS right.
Mark wants to get rid of anyone and everyone that holds a contrary opinion to his. I am juvenile, sophmoric, conceited, have an agenda, don't respect authority....but are my thoughts any less valid than his on what I know pretty well? Never once did I cross over into politics. Sure, I had my fun and pushed the limits, and evidently the powers that be didn't really like it. Leve can ramble on for pages and pages about his Russia trip and hookers and not talk about wine for 80+ posts, but I cannot ask a simple question? There are no standards or ethics enforced there.
_________________ Tigers love pepper...they hate cinnamon.
I don't always drink wine. But when I do, I prefer DRC.
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:50 pm Posts: 967 Location: Houston, Texas
See, it's this kind of business with people tossing around notions of people having agendas and stuff without being willing to call folks out on it that makes it a decaying force. Out with all of it, I say. And if someone has an agenda? Well, go ahead and note it and move on ... it's like labeling someone ITB. You know how to calibrate the comments then.
For the record: I have a strong agenda. I've been keeping it secret for years. I love pinot noir, and I'm going to be up-front about the wines I like. On a more sinister scale, I also embrace all viewpoints and like reading things written by those who disagree with me. Sorry. But I'm going to use that agenda until it destroys all BBs existent.
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Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:11 pm 
And I volunteer him to be the official dog of the Wine Berserker Board! ![[emot-pwn.gif]](./images/smilies/emot-pwn.gif "pwn")
![[rofl.gif]](./images/smilies/rofl.gif "rofl")
![[cheers.gif]](./images/smilies/cheers.gif "cheers")
![[berserker.gif]](./images/smilies/berserker.gif "berserker")
![[shrug.gif]](./images/smilies/shrug.gif "shrug")
