Alcohol and Balance in Pinot Noir - the World of Pinot Noir

Great write up from Alder Yarrow of the panel led discussion and tasting of Pinots Friday down at the the World of Pinot Noir conference. Eric Asimov moderated, and panel members included Jim Clendenon, Adam Tohlmach, Raj Paar, Josh Jensen, Michael Browne and Adam Lee. As you might imagine, the discussions were lively . . .but check out the end of the story for an interesting ‘twist’ per Adam Lee . . .

BTW, this has been and continues to be discussed over on the other board with some interesting give and take taking place.

Cheers!

Great article. And Adam’s twist is FANTASTIC!

Thanks, Larry, that was a fun read!

Maybe Adam can come in here and explain how to steam off labels without exposing the wine to excess heat?

Thanks for the link Larry: I like Jim C’s comment on the Pinot alcohol debate: “None of us is getting free passes anymore.”

RT

Thanks for posting. Great commentary and I especially appreciated reading Jim Clendenen’s perspective.

It was a fun read to me as well . . . the only thing that made me cringe was Jim’s comments near the end about a specific winery (that I know VERY well) that supposedly makes wines to please RMP’s palate . . .

Cheers!

Hey Claude,

The word I actually used was “soak” — and even that’s not the correct word. The correct word would be – spray the outside of the bottle with a Windex type subtance — the scrape with a razor blade. Then do it again – and again, and maybe again.

Also, all, I have to say this (and said it on the other board as well). Raj was perhaps the most generous and honest guy in the room by telling me that I should tell everyone that he wanted to purchase what turned out to be the higher alcohol wine. He and I were talking about it privately and he said that I should mention it. Otherwise I wouldn’t have. He certainly didn’t have to do that. Kudos to him.

My goal was to get the room to vote on which wine they thought was better balanced (they all knew the alcohols on them) - but that didn’t happen. Instead the events occurred as mentioned in Alder’s blog. I was thinking that because people had a preconceived notion about the alcohols they would think of the balance accordingly.

Just a few more details to clear things up.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

Thanks for the clarification, Adam.

Interesting reading for a pure consumer. I am very happy this subject was the focus of a panel discussion.

+1. It makes me want to buy some Au Bon Climat wines right away. Adam- can you shed some more light on the point of the “twist”? Is it that important to play what is seemingly a game of gotcha to get on the list. Mr. Parr, at least in his comments seems to behaing alcohol levels as a primary indicator to be on the list for Burgundian wines. His choice- and I doubt he would say it is a perfect method, nor do I think it opens the door to 14+ Pinot and Chardonnay in the future.

Well, he chose the more “balanced” wine for his restaurant and lo and behold, it turned out to be over 15%! Point being…choose a wine based on whether you enjoy it or not…don’t let a posted # (which often is not accurate) be the ONLY factor.

I agree in principle, but how many diners are walking into a restaurant where the theme of the wine list is publicly geared towards traditional Burgundian PN and Chard are going to buy bottles of Keefer Ranch Pinot? Probably not many.

Anthony,

Perhaps you didn’t see my earlier post – but my goal wasn’t to get on the list (he mentioned he carries our Oregon wine, something I didn’t know but was grateful for)-- or to involve Raj at all. It was to ask the audience what they thought of the balance of the two wines. But when Raj asked me (privately) about buying the wine I told him that he didn’t want to purchase it. He seemed puzzled, asked why – and that’s when I told him about the label switch and he said that we should let everyone know. Once again, incredibly generous on his part.

My goal was to show what I think can easily occur with all of us, myself included, which is having the label indication of alcohol affect our perception of the wine. The power of suggestion.

BTW, in his comments Raj said that he didn’t want to carry any CA Pinot Noir or CA Chardonnay on the list at RN74 (only, not the Michael Mina restaurant as a whole) over 14%. As I stated on the other board, it is his restaurant, his choice, and I fully support his making that choice. If he wanted to carry only Italian wines then that would be his choice and I’d support that as well. It is his place to do as he sees fit. Much like it is my choice to make the wines I see fit, etc etc.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

Absolutely brilliant…one of the most enlightening pieces I have read of late. Also, this truly shows what stuffed shirts the “low-alcohol” faction (a.k.a. Alc Qaeda) are. Let’s just worry about making that best wine from the best sites, period. Parr, for all of his obnoxious ramblings, does put his money where his mouth is in allowing Adam to divulge his experiment.

Am I the only one who finds it deliciously ironic that a guy who rails against higher-alcohol wines, and fancies himself such a great taster that he wrote a whole book about it, couldn’t back up his own hype in real life? This one should be regarded as a true classic.

Thanks for sharing that. Classy & humble move on his part.

J

Thanks for the additional comments Adam. It adds some clarity.

That was very cool. Big props to Raj for doing that.

Anyone with a Twit acct, send Raj a tweet, ask him to register here & join the discussion

http://twitter.com/rn74

jorgrama So far the Alcohol in Pinot panel is disppointingly lacking in drama. Was hoping for some MMW action - mixed martial wines!
1:32 PM Mar 4th via Echofon

^Someone forgot to invite that ‘other’ “asshole” to be part of the panel … Joe Davis

Todd wrote:03.06.11 at 11:00 AM
Lawrence, the trouble with putting pH (or any precise info) on labels is that the labels really need to be printed before bottling or you’d need to run the bottling line twice (very expensive). The labels take a while to have printed and the wines aren’t finished, blends are finalized, etc. when labels are printed - at least for my ops and the ops of most of my peers.

^ and so Ridge is not a peer .

quoting panel member M. Brown:

I can’t drink 16% Pinots, but its also worth pointing out that > a wine at 13% can be hot> .

I don’t think anything but the most retarded physiologically unripe Pinot Noir from perhaps lousy thin/insipid winemaking, Canadian or German/Alsatian vintage, could be described as ‘hot’ @13%.

M.Brown may have had an epiphany w/'92 Allen PN-W-S, but as far as that wine goes, had it 1/2 dozen times in the mid-late/ 90’s and I can say the '92 vintage style of W-S was my least favorite, other than the very light/leaner '93 vintage (exception being the '93 Summa-Coastlands Burt poured for me in '97? which was superlative for the vintage, powerful).

We had a WB discussion on ripeness and the lot.

TN: '06 Carlisle Blackberry Mochaccino

Picking by flavor: what does it mean?


As far as Raj goes, give credit to him by saying that blind tastings can humble him/people. I see far, far too much elitism, especially with fans of Burgundy> the “emperor wears no clothes” syndrome, imho. As a Somm, Parr is quite the diplomat; and likes a very wide range of wines, will accentuate the positives, and not mention much in the way of negatives. He’s not in the business of being overly critical, rather recommending as wide a range of wines as possible to the wide range of tastes you find in the restaurant business.

Blind tastings are humbling. @KGreenPR This great Canadian Pinot reminded me of Chambolle Musigny!

http://twitter.com/rn74

@rapopoda I have nothing against Pinot with 14.5% alc. Over 15% is an issue!!
March 4, 2011 9:21:13 PM PST via Echofon in reply to rapopoda

Another great example of a killer Williams Selyem “Rochioli” 87- wow!! CA Pinot has a future! Like a > village Jayer

Uh, well; I did give Henri Jayer a bottle of the '87 Rochioli on Jayer’s westcoast tour in the fall of 1990. But the '87 vintage was not a big one for W-S, guess Raj is not familiar with that? At any rate it would be like me saying after tasting a Jayer '87 VR Beaumonts " like a W-S Russian River bottling" Comparisons are odious.



Print acid levels on labels? Good idea, I favor it…but; then you will need to print up the actual levels of every kind of acid in the wine, as that ratio also affects perception of ‘balance’. Why not have the lab panels printed online for every winery, for each and every wine, lot/blocks used in blending?

Jamie Kutch was going to get a panel done on the '91 DRC RSV in another thread from late last year, to check on oxidation levels, IIRC…that would have been interesting also.

There’s another board?