TN's: January 30th Raveneau 2008 tasting plus some older vintages

As promised, here are the notes of yesterday’s Raveneau tasting. First I’d like to thank Don Cornwell for pointing me towards some web-based resources and Justin Wells for his pointers on pre-tasting aeration; I’m very glad I took his advice!
I opened all bottles at 11AM to give them all three and a half hours of slow oxygenation. I jotted down some quick first impressions, which I will add to below notes.
As it turned out, 210+ minutes wasn’t quite enough for the 2008’s, which were double decanted on the spot over the last hour of the tasting. Even after that, they were rather tight. I’d have to advise anyone willing to open a bottle now to decant upon opening and wait at least two hours, but a minimum of a decade in the cellar would be preferable.
I also have some general remarks about the Domaine, which I will add to my earlier post later, to keep this one from getting any longer than it is already.

Thanks to a very generous attendee who wishes to remain anonymous, we had a little teaser to sip on while I took care of introductions. It was none other than:

Chablis 1er Cru “Beauroy” 2008 – Domaine Tribut
Popped and poured with about twenty minutes delay, this wine from Vincent Dauvissat’s brother in law has plenty of youthful Chablis goodness, with medium-intense notes of Granny-Smith and cretaceous minerality. A medium-minus body on the attack gives way to youthful -embryonic really- acidity, which scrubs the mouth clean and while there is sufficient extract to lend some mid-palate balance, this wine really needs time and plenty of it. And yet, the finish displays medium-plus intensity and -surprisingly enough- hangs on for about half a minute. This is a well-made wine in a pure and lithe style, which would score in the 87/88 point range for me, if I would have had time to take notes. I suspect some serious upside as well.

Chablis 1er Cru “Fôret” 2006 – Domaine Raveneau
Initially a pale lemon-yellow core and watery rim, a medium intense nose showing typical citrus, white flower and calcareous notes. The wine is medium bodied, has just about medium-plus acidity and some medium-plus intense fennel/licorice notes. The finish already does 20-25 seconds.

Once poured at the tasting, medium-plus intense notes of softer fruits are accompanied by a vegetal (in a good way) notes of celeriac and fennel bulb, but also carnations and saline minerality. Acidity remains medium-plus, but overall balance has improved courtesy of medium-plus intense flavours of quince and blood orange. The mid-palate fruit has some real sap and purity to it, while the minerality here is saline to the point of invoking associations with Muscadet (though not nearly as pronounced). Finally, the finish satisfies and maintains its balance for 20-25 seconds.
Beforehand I expected this wine to be the red-haired stepchild of the line-up, but it surprised us pleasantly. 89 points are warranted and this may well improve to 91 over the next five years.
Chablis 1er Cru “Monts Mains” 2005 – Domaine Raveneau
The cork smelled iffy upon popping, but the nose was medium-minus intense and quite exotic with notes of ripe nectarine, blanched almonds and a chlorine streak of minerals. The medium-plus body and ditto acidity reluctantly give way to a decidedly reticent mid-palate, or are things being suppressed by the dreaded TCA monster? The finish makes it to the half minute mark regardless.
At 2.45AM there is no doubt that this wine is corked and unfortunately I only had the single bottle… Drat!

Chablis 1er Cru “Butteaux” 2008 – Domaine Raveneau
At 11AM this wine was almost colourless, with a medium-minus intense hi-toned nose showing citrus notes and a quinine mineral touch. Flavour-wise it was medium-minus bodied, or so the pronounced acidity made it seem. Other wise it was utterly reticent, making it seem rather simple.

At the tasting, the colour turns out to be pale lemon-green with a watery rim. The nose hasn’t improved much in intensity, but has gained some precision and now displays mildly exotic ground almonds over a backdrop of grapefruit, enhanced by some white flowers and candied lime-peel.
The body has put on some fat and is now medium, while positively austere acidity can’t disguise some largely buried richness which might just be oak-derived. An edge of fatty mineral clay balances out the acidity somewhat, but that still leaves the medium-plus intense fruit flavours in the yellow grapefruit end of the spectrum. The finish kicks it up another notch, as it adds another level of intensity and easily persists until 30-35 seconds after swallowing. Did I mention that I only spat the Monts Mains?
This wine was (re)presented somewhat unfairly, as it was the only 2008 which didn’t see the carafe. However, a last taste after cleaning up had gained both in intensity and relative weight, so the 90 points I can give for what I actually took notes on will most likely prove too conservative. I suspect at least 2 –maybe 4- points potential, but please leave this until 2018 unless you have a serious stash.

Chablis 1er Cru “Chapelot” 2008 – Domaine Raveneau
This was a first for me, as I was never offered more than single bottles every vintage and they are all way to young still. The nose was medium-minus intense at first and while diffuse came across as much riper than the Butteaux. Exotic notes of spice, ground almond and orange zest invoke an impression of orange Pekoe tea. While medium bodied, humongous acidity was kept bearable by utterly refined texture and also its medium-plus flavour intensity on the mid-palate and 25 seconds of minerally infused finish.

Utterly pale, with perhaps a straw coloured core. The nose has improved a notch and is now medium intense. The nose has expanded beyond its earlier exoticism to include typical fennel bulb and blood orange, but also quite precise notes of licorice, a smoky mineral edge, sun-dried tomatoes (no, really!) and even something animalistic/meaty/gamey. Overall, this wine leaves an impression of ripeness not previously encountered.
Medium-plus bodied on the attack, it is the relatively weightiest wine so far and also the most intense. Pronounced flavours of orange and fennel are laced with saline licorice minerality, which lends very good balance in coalition with pronounced acidity. The finish has gained in intensity compared to four hours earlier, but is still in the 25 second range.
This was excellent, so I feel confident in scoring this 92 points and it will improve, perhaps even as much as three points.

Chablis 1er Cru “Montée de Tonnerre” 2008 – Domaine Raveneau
Initially, this was even more exotic than the Chapelot, but it has to be noted that the medium-minus intense nose displayed a slightly smoky wood component. There was however a definite impression of ripeness about the smoked almond, orange and chlorine mineral notes. The body was medium at this early stage, but pronounced acidity was well balanced by medium-plus intense mid-palate flavours, which seemed to have to edge on the Chapelot in presence. The finish clocked in around the 20-25 second mark.

Indistiguishable in colour from the other ‘08s to someone with my poor eyesight, this much coveted 1er offers up medium intense notes of fennel bulb, almond paste and a touch of orange. It has however, grown more into what the French call a “vin droit” and in its calcareous minerally infused righteousness, it resembles more the Butteaux than the Chapelot.
This too, has the pronounced acidity the vintage is characterized by, but also it’s substance. Medium-plus bodied, it is not quite weighty but it has the mid-palate presence which befits its reputation. Flavour intensity is however no more than medium, although the acidity kicks up a major ruckus and is only softened by a hint of mineral clay. It is no surpise then, that the finish packs it in after 15-20 seconds, so its undoubtedly high quality has to be inferred from the impressive extract this wine possesses. 89 points seems ridiculously low, but this too will be a candidate for the 94/95 point bracket in 2020.

Chablis Grand Cru Valmur 2001 – Domaine Raveneau
This wine doesn’t get much love, but it was my fourth bottle and I really like it for what it is. Medium intense canary yellow, with a clearing rim. Medium-plus intense straight off the bat, the nose was quite complex and clearly showed evolution with notes of tangerine, more tropical fruits, almond and an ashy mineral backdrop. It was medium bodied with quite refined texture, but medium-plus acidity and ditto intensity kept it nervously styled. The finish approached the 30 second mark.

Four and a half hours don’t make any difference colour-wise, but the nose now shows clear botrytis influence in its spicy cardamom and sweet Turkish delight notes, with a hint of diesel to boot. This is also the first wine to show the typical fatty Serein clay note on the nose, aside from typical almondy goodness and more candied fruits.
Whether its comes from the weaker vintage (although Bernard Raveneau seems to prefer it over his 2000s) or additional bottle age, this slightly more than medium bodied wine seems to be somewhat lower in acidity at not quite medium-plus. This does however, make it a nice break from the enamel-stripping acidities encountered before and with its smooth texture, it is quite the crowd pleaser to those who don’t object to its botrytized nature. Pronouncedly intense flavours of almost red fruit –redcurrant comes to mind– fennel shoots and fatty mineral clay caress the palate and take their sweet time to softly fade after 25 seconds. Additionally, a saline licorice note asserts itself, while another indication of breed can be found in its balanced intensity on the finish. If I have to pick a nit, it would be that this Valmur does not possess the length of great vintages, but that doesn’t keep it from being a great drink. If you have any, do give it a few hours of slow-ox and you’re in for a treat. 94 points and it will keep for at least 4 to 5 years.

Chablis Grand Cru Blanchot 2008 – Domaine Raveneau
Virtually water-coloured, this had a ligtly intense nose which somehow managed to give off refined –almost essence-like– citrus notes and a hint of citrus rind. Actually medium-minus bodied, it seemed nearly weightless on the mid-palate, while but medium intense flavours somehow managed to buffer the pronounced-yet-refined acidity. Saline minerality asserted itself on the sneaky 30 second finish.

Nearly five hours of air seem to have added a hint of straw to the core and increase the intensity on the reserved nose to not quite medium. A dab of menthol gives even more lift to already airy and precise notes of grapefruit, fennel, smoked meat and a mineral touch which I can’t quite determine.
While not nearly as extracted -nor weighty- as the last four wines, this wine has the elegance and balance we’ve been waiting for. It teaches us a masterclass in finesse in its own right and while but medium intense at present, it’s certainly no more than medium-minus bodied and seems to re-write the very definition of purity. I have no doubt the acidity is pronounced, but it seems to go unnoticed somehow as it is buffered by a wave of glycerine-induced smoothness. Only some pinpricks of minerally origin shine through and it sounds silly, but I seem to somehow have forgotten to put down anything regarding the fruit in my notes… go figure!
The finish merely continues proceedings on the mid-palate and seems on the short side with a mere 20-25 seconds, but it caresses the inside of the mouth during that stretch of time.
This is one of those wines where a numerical score seems pointless, but I’ll go out on a limb, give 94 points for now and feel certain that this wine will take its rightful place in the upper echelon of the 100 point scale

Chablis Grand Cru Valmur 2008 – Domaine Raveneau
Considering Burghounds glowing review, I was expecting some fireworks here. Initially, the nose once again presented an impression of ripe richness with medium-minus intense notes of almond, green herbs and slightly silicious minerality. It was medium bodied, but closed in on itself to the point of resembling dense water; an impression only offset by piercingly pronounced acidity which –it has to be noted– somehow managed to avoid being tart and even linger in a not entirely unpleasant manner.

Tasted last, the nose kicks it up a notch in precision if unfortunately not intensity, with notes of lime and its rind, flat leaf parsley & lavas and full-fledged Serein clay. Unfortunately, the palate has not budged at all and since there is hardly any mid-palate flavour, there can not be a finish either. I feel a numerical representation of my appreciation for this showing in no way reflects the true potential of this wine, as I can almost sense the fabulous potential lurking somewhere within its considerable dry matter. Hors categorie it is then and maybe the quarter bottle I took home (I let the others drink everything else and take home what was left) to further the intrests of empirical science will show more of itself tomorrow.

I’m beat… I’m off to bed to sleep off the remainder of my hangover…

Mike…

Interesting stuff re: the Lafon of Chablis. All in all, it sounds like the wines were more “correct”, as the French like to say evasively. Not a lot of pleasure , it seemed, at the moment, though some indicators of things to come-- if I read your tone correctly. Didn’t read any “wows” or infer them, either.

I’m afraid I don’t really understand Mr. Wells’ aeration advice and what you did, though maybe nothing short of two days in open decanter would have really gotten these guys to show up now. If I read it correctly, you just pulled the corks on the bottles for three hours…and then…at the end of the tasting put them in a carafe and then poured them back into the bottle? or am I wrong in my reading? (I would expect the “slow ox” to do not much of anything to the wines, certainly at this age.)

That the finishes were long…and seemingly good…is always a good omen, when not much else is clear from tasting.

Young chablis (and this stuff must be recently bottled?) is almost always a challenge, to say the least. It almost always tells me to let it become old Chablis…

Though I have little experience with the Raveneaus’ wines, but lots with their first cousion, Vincent Dauvissat’s…I’d guess that these wines might have needed a day or two in open decanter to really open up…if then.

Certainly good education…and I guess…that was the main goal.

Very thorough notes Mike. Thanks for sharing them. I tasted through virtually the same '08s (and a couple more) recently. I haven’t had a chance to finish a post on them for my blog, but my TNs in process are up on CT: 2008 Raveneau Chablis - CellarTracker

I was pretty disappointed with the lineup, finding them riper and somewhat lacking in structure compared to most vintages of Raveneau. It looks like you and I are pretty much in agreement on the ones we both tasted.

Richard,

Curious what your decanting/aeration was?

Thanks for the notes Mike, particularly on the 01 Valmur of which I have one lone bottle left.
Best Regards
Jeremy

Stuart,
I tasted them at Vin Vino Wine in Palo Alto, which usually does one or two tastings of Raveneau per year. VVW double decants all their wines before serving. I tasted them over a 90 minute period, swirling a lot to give them all the air I could. That’s about it. I typically find Raveneau to show pretty well in the first several months to a year after release, and then to shut down for at least 2 to 3 years. These seemed fairly open and approachable, not to mention riper and less structured than usual, as I wrote above.

Stuart,

Firstly, after reading back the tasting notes I have to admit that they paint less of a consistent picture than I usually aim for. It was impossible for me to take notes while presenting the tasting and while I do have a faithful attendee who jots down things for me, he is not used to my “WSET structured approach” method of describing wines. This forced me to start writing notes the next day, while the wines were still fresh in my memory. Unfortunately, I was still badly hung over, as I was dumb enough to wolf down half of an Époisses on toast for dinner… That is also the explanation for the 16 edits which I’ve had to do.

Still, you’re mostly right as far as pleasure is involved, although you’ll notice that the Chapelot and Valmur 2001 did provide some, while the Blanchot was very impressive indeed if not for the hedonistically inclined.
I did indeed pull the corks at 11AM and poured out a small tasting measure on which the first paragraph of each note is based, after which I left them standing in a cool room. Double decanting right away would probably have been better in retrospect, but my general objection to decanting is that it is somewhat of a desperate measure. Not only does one run the risk of the wines further closing down, a whole segment of their development would go unnoticed in this setting.

Whenever you make it to these shores I will be happy to drink some Raveneaux with you (I still have some of that old Dauvissat Clos as well), but all I can say is that while I appreciate them both equally, the brothers are stylistically at opposite ends of the spectrum compared to cousin Vincent.
Lastly, despite the displayed reticence a great time was had by all -they would tell me if they didn’t; trust me - and I took away a lot from it myself. I will post a third day note on the Valmur 2008 later today.

Richard,

Indeed minimal notes, I look forward to when you have worked them out. I find the price tags rather inflated, but I understand they are indeed rather moderate in your neck of the woods.
I do find your observation on their structure rather puzzling, as my general impression is one of classic wines with tremendous acidities. While they may have a little more substance around their waists than the 2007s and lack their explosive linear intensity, I would rank them higher than all but the very best vintages chez Raveneau.
This makes Stuart’s question on the aeration of the line-up you tasted all the more interesting.

Thanks, Mike. Though I haven’t tasted any 2008 Chablis (or 2007), I’m told that at Dauvissat “they” consider 2008 the better of the two vintages and an excellent one. That’s why I think plenty of potential remained in the bottles that weren’t opened for your tasting. I sensed that from your notes. Finishes are really good indicators, assuming that there is plenty of fruit to offset the structure.

Frankly, young Chablis is a category I think that, even for educational/informational purposes, gives back the least information. So, I don’t seek it out. (I got burnt with taking some '83s to a special dinner in late '85, at some wine store’s recommendation; I didn’t know enough to question them then; vividly remember that they were Grenouille, but that’s it…and that they were tight as…whatever.)

Look forward to tasting those Raveneaus sometime over there…and would be happy to host you here, too…for something educational…and pleasurable, though the latter is more important…or at least equally so.

P.S. I’ve been trying to figure out what would happen to me if I ate a half of epoisses. I’m not sure I’d try, at this point. Just curious whether you get the raw milk, Laiterie de la Cote version there…or the Germain or Berthaut versions (with “lait entier”-a vague term if there ever was one)…that are pasteurized/thermalisee? Personally, I also look to get the versions, that all three make, of the epoisses cheese, but finished in Chablis rather than marc de bourgogne. Not only does it smell much better, but it looks better too once attacked. I assume you had the darker-coated stuff?

My initial response was "Every single wine on that list will benefit greatly from 3+ hours of air. " followed up with “I decant every single bottle of Raveneau I ever drink for at least an hour and preferably 2+ when I have the opportunity. Raveneau imo can take lots of air. Generally the aromatics will be fairly expressive out the gate, but the finish and especially the texture get better leaps and bounds with air.”

I’m not a big fan of the slow-ox thing. Although I suppose it’s better than nothing. I will a lot of the time open the wines in the morning, decant, and put right back into the bottle recorking them until the evening.

Justin,

In a private setting I will definitely follow your advice to the letter next time I’m opening a bottle young or youngish. I motivated my decision to adopt slow-ox for this tasting above, so no need to rehash that.


Stuart,

Oh, I’m aging my Raveneaux and Dauvissats for a minimum of ten years. However, I do like to taste them young too for educational purposes, provided I have enough bottles. Sometimes you get lucky and they’re actually delicious in the first year after they’ve been bottled. With these wines, it has been over nine months and the window of opportunity has most likely slammed shut.

By the way, pleasure IS important and eating half a Berthaut cloche -and I mean the ripe stuff with a marc-washed rind- seemed like great fun when I was munching my way through it. During the night and the next day… not so much!

That leaves the re-tasting of the Valmur 48 hours on. Medium intense nose, showing very pure notes of lemon, oyster shell minerality and something vaguely toasty or nutty (definitely not oak). About medium bodied, pronounced acidity already showing some finesse and getting decent interplay from aforementioned flavours… medium-plus flavour intensity and some sneaky length… about half a minute of it… I like this, but will save a glass for tomorrow.

Mike, though I don’t know your method of storage on the Valmur since the tasting, your experience is one of many mind-boggling experiences I’ve had with Dauvissat Chablis and even George Vernay Condrieus, though more rarely with Cote de Beaune whites. Even when left in a mostly-empty , uncorked bottle, these wines have, shockingly, shown their glories 2-3 days after initial openings/tasting-- and they almost always have at least 6-7 years age on them! One skeptical friend last fall, who was away with me and others for the weekend, was shocked…and humbled by their development and improvement-- especially the Condrieus, which are not supposed to be that durable.

Stuart,

Very simple, I just stick the appropriate cork back in the bottle and put it upright in the door of my wine fridge at 53F. It is not uncommon for young, stuctured wines to improve over several days. Riesling is champion for me in this arena, but Chablis and Chénin Blanc can also show spectacularly well several days after opening the bottles.
I have never had Condrieu from Vernay, but have tasted older wines from François Villard which were amazingly good at 10-15 years after the vintage, so I certainly am aware that it’s possible.

Anyway, speaking of opened bottles left to absorb oxygen… my last half glass of the Valmur 2008 still has a medium intense nose showing oyster shell and other saline goodness, but the citrus notes have morphed to lemon sherbet and I even catch the occasional whiff of white peach. It seems like the ripe undercurrent I encountered in the other 2008s is finally coming out to play.
It’s medium-bodied on the attack, while the pronounced acidity has started to reluctantly integrate. Still medium bodied, pronounced flavours of again lemon sherbet and saline minerity are softened by an almost creamy texture previously absent. It is on the finish however, that a real glimpse into the future is unveiled, as intensity increases to a level where it seems like thousands of tiny pinpricks are etching the flavours into my tongue, cheek-insides and roof of my mouth. This lasts for ten seconds, after which it takes another half minute to lose cohesion. Very impressive indeed!

Sounds what you’d hope for, Mike. Of course, you also have to wonder how many years in the bottle it would take to get to that stage.

Mike:

Sounds like a fun experience for those of us who are big time Chablis fans but what was your sense of how the people you presented this to reacted to the vineyard differences? Were they able to see the distinctions between the vineyards clearly, or did the vintage character and youthful austerity combine overwhelm the terroir demonstration?

I opened a bottle of 2005 Coche Meursault Rougeots on Wed. of this week. I decanted into another bottle, put a cork in it and put it into the fridge to consume this Sunday, 4 days later. I couldn’t resist a small taste and what I found was a wine that was clamped down like a oyster shell. I don’t doubt it will be as open as porn stars legs when watching the game tomorrow…

I too have had many of the Raveneau and Dauvissat wines from 2008 (hold the very top tier) and found them to be perfectly balanced which is the key. That said the rewards won’t be there without 20 years of age. That’s when the real fireworks will light up your palate.

Jamie…

Did you really expect that what you did would open an othewise closed wine? Serious question.

I wouldn’t expect that “splashing” (is that the right term?) from one bottle to another then sticking a cork in would budge the wine…To be clear I’m talking about open decanters, as I feel that slow ox does nothing much, if at all, even if the cork is left out…

I’ve got 2 ‘88 Rousseaus in open decanter now for dinner…and I’m hoping they won’t show their best tomorrow, when our friends aren’t here. I’ve been checking on them…and they are opening up, but…aren’t there yet. I never cease to be amazed at how aeration is a crucial component to wines’ showing their best…consistent with their needs, at least. Both were “nice” for about a half hour, then…closed up.

Let’s put it like this: I’ll be opening the next '08 in 2018 -most likely a Butteaux- and the Valmur probably won’t come out of the cellar before 2025. I expect having to wait even longer for my '07s.

All present were wine lovers: a few persons ITB but the good kind if you know what I mean, some others with extremely sophisticated palates, some former students of mine and a couple of my closest friends.
What they all had in common however, was a willingness to be educated. I usually encourage the audience to give as much feedback as they like, but everyone was mostly staring into their glass in a mesmererized sort of way.
Depsite the closed nature of some of the wines, the differences were quite marked and everyone got them. There was enough stemware to compare, so anyone hazy on nuances could easily taste side by side. Most telling to me was that a certain former student, who always managed to come up with loads of questions during class didn’t utter a sound for the whole two hours.

My experiences are similar in that I also tasted the Village, Vaillons and Sechet from Dauvissat and as it happens, a bunch of non Grand-Cru Billaud-Simons. On average though, I didn’t like them quite as much as their 2007 counterparts. I could sense that they had very good substance to them -perhaps even more than the 2007s- but they didn’t thrill me as much. No “wow” factor as Burghound likes to write. Unfortunately, my needs for 2007 Raveneau weren’t met until very late in the game -last June- by which time I figured that they most likely had already closed down and it would be a waste to try them.