In my prior Napa trips I’ve largely ended up at “famous” commercial wineries with a charged-for tasting where I felt no obligation to buy. Outside of DC, the Virginia wineries often charge a modest tasting fee and prices per bottle are more than a comparable wine would be in California, and I just feel very guilty if I don’t buy at least a bottle, even at the mediocre ones. Maybe they’ll soften with time.
This is an interesting topic to me. My wife and I have never had an intimate tasting as described, but we have gone to a number of places with fees that would not be waived regardless of amount purchased. I don’t think we have ever felt obligated to purchase but the places we seek out because we enjoy their wine, we almost always purchase several bottles as we discover something new. I also feel that the person working the room, large or small, can make or break the experience as well as make or break a sale.
I would suspect having a tasting as described in the OP, there must be some relationship in place already. If not, taking that much time from a winemaker I would feel an obligation to make a purchase. Just a newb’s .02.
Firstly, we decided not to go ahead with it because of the costs. We were going to be asking the customer to pay $50 shipping per case and paying the cellar-door price but in fact selling the wine to the US distribution company at export prices. It didn’t make sense to give people an intimate winery visit and then get paid less than if we were selling in volume to a importer.
Secondly, I think it would be wrong of people to go to a small winery, expect a long intimate tour and tasting and then only buy a bottle or two. I thought Stephen’s figure of $100/couple sounded fair.
As I said, it depends on the winery. Some wineries are focused on the mailing-list model and the intimate tour is their main form of marketing. Others may work mainly through the trade so the cellar door is a mixture of publicity and direct sales revenue.
In Europe the models are very different. Most wineries do not have mailing-list sales and because competition is fierce and visitors are scarce, they cannot price their wine artificially high just to sell to wine tourists. OK, there are some that do that, notably in the main wine tourism centres, but most wineries rely on trade sales for most of their revenue and the cellar door or winery visit is done to support that.
So as I said, the expectations of American visitors and small European producers are often mismatched.
Jon, Nola
If you have a winery visit from someone who has flown in, what are your expectations and the reality of them making a purchase? Are the two far apart?
From a punter’s perspective, it is difficult, as it is a rare chance to really get to see/understand a winery, and positive experiences do result in purchases back home, but rarely in significant volumes. Yet when there, the reality is that we only have the opportunity to carry 6-7 bottles, and if visiting 4-5 wineries, that is much less than 2 bottles a winery. When I am going home by plane, I would feel more comfortable with a small tasting charge, as there is a finite limit to what I can carry, let alone get in the hold luggage.
Oddly the only time I have ever had pressure applied for me to buy, was one of the few instances where they had already charged a tasting fee for the tasting/visit. Indeed the pressure was very direct, even argumentative, which was shocking. Conversely, when there is no tasting fee, we have typically asked if we could pay for it, and the winery has always waved such thoughts away, as if it would embarass them as hosts to accept it. Italian hospitality remains genuine.
I think, in reality, if a winery is getting a number of flying visitors, it needs to charge a relatively high fee for an intimate visit if the guests are only going to buy 1-2 bottles and the chances of them buying back home are slim.
The problem, as I’ve said, is that local visitors are going to be very different. They are going to get offended at a tasting fee but are likely to buy at least 2 cases. The average small winery will treat flying visitors like it does driving ones and wave you off with a smile. However, they are just writing it off as a loss because it’s the minority. It is embarrassing to take a “tip” or to ask people if they are flying or to charge a fee dependent on the sale but in reality the buying customer is subsidising the flying one.
What you should not assume is that the winemaker is truly happy to spend their time entertaining visitors for no reward. I’ve been told that we vignerons should be grateful that tourists want to pay us a visit, whether they buy anything or not, but I’m sure you can all see that the pleasure of being visited would wear a little thin after a pretty short time.
I don’t know the solution. I think most flying visitors would be content to pay a surcharge but there will always be some who will hunt out the free visit or take offence at being asked to pay because of their inability to buy.
Speaking frankly, the thing that leaves the bitterest taste in my mouth is the visitor who takes up a lot of time asking general wine questions, dropping names of other wines they’ve drunk, taking loads of photos, getting you to open extra bottles and then saying “we can’t buy anything now because we’re flying home tomorrow but we have your details and I’m sure we’ll order when we get home” and we never hear from them again.
So I think the nicest thing for the flying visitor to do, in the absence of a set tasting fee, is to either buy some of the most expensive bottles (they can be checked into the hold) or offer to pay for the visit, anything more than 20€ per person is very likely to be refused. That’s of course assuming that the wine wasn’t undrinkable rubbish.
Jonathan
Many thanks for such an honest and considered response. It really has given me a better insight into the difficulty of that situation.
I suppose we do normally buy at the more expensive end when we visit, albeit to be honest my thinking has typically been that with a limited capacity, I want to at least get something worthy of that limited space. Only when we took the car, did we buy some more modest wines, but that would have been in a mixed half dozen, generally with some more pricey wines as well.
I think Italian hospitality may preclude anyone ever accepting an offer to pay for the tasting when we are there. Indeed there is a risk that it may be viewed as a sop for not really liking the wines but offering out of obligation. Perhaps the best way is to be absolutely upfront when making the appointment, saying we will be travelling by plane and will be limited in what we can buy, so we would like to (discretely) pay them for the tasting on arrival. I suspect most would still refuse!
After a really friendly tasting in Ghemme, we made a return visit, bringing some regional food from home as a thankyou. Bloody hospitable Italians ended us giving us more in return when we left! I don’t think this would be a battle we could ever win.
Regards
Ian
Well Ian, we charge a minimal tasting fee in our winery, 5 euros per drinking person. That includes a tour of the winery either by me, Juan or our winery foreman, as detailed explanation of the facilities as I can, and tasting of at least 4-6 wines, usually starting with a sparkling opened on the spot. I open one white, two to three reds and one of our dessert wines. I also live by the rule of no tasting without some sort of tapa. So in most cases it is various nuts, chips and perhaps a small bit of cheese. If it is a large group 20+ people the tapas are more substantial and the tour takes a lot more time. I don’t demand that the visitors buy wine while they are there, but if they do I am happy. I certainly understand the issue of traveling and flying with wine. A large number of our guests are coming though via driving and they are the ones who pack up the car to the roof and fill every bit of space they can.
As far as when we charge the fee, it depends, if it is a prearranged busload of tourists, an appointment is scheduled ahead of time and the tour operator pays me at the end. If it is a couple who happens by or has a prearranged appointment, then too I collect it after the tour, but I tell them before I agree to take them on the tour. You would be surprised the number of people who want to come through have a look see, drink copious amounts of wine and eat for free.
Yes it is easy to forget that many winery visits include thoughtful plates of food to accompany the wines.