And there is always the Jay T. “Fox News” contribution: fair and balanced. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
This thread is about 2011 Barolo, not A.G. If someone else’s take on the vintage is more significant to you, by all means bring it into the discussion.
Michael, I agree with everything you say! Well, almost. the thread is about what it’s about. You were the OP, and you set the framework yourself by citing A.G.'s take on the vintage. But you can’t control where the conversation then leads.
I agree with other posters that the best conversation will come from people posting their personal experiences with the vintage. But since the vintage hasn’t even been released, that’s probably not going to be a big part of this thread (although we can always talk about farming and the weather), so we’re again left to discuss the critics’ scores. As I indicated in your quote of me, I’m not going to wade in on A.G. as a reviewer in the abstract. But how A.G.'s past evaluations withstand the test of time is surely relevant to the question of whether people plan to take A.G.'s word for the quality of this vintage. And looking at A.G.'s idiosyncratic evaluations – e.g. 2008 Giacosa and 2010 Monprivato – is the best way to test them.
I had the 2011 Gaja Barbaresco this week. It was silky and very perfumed. Very nice balance, will probably get better, but was pretty open for such a young wine.
Absolutely
Michael
I reckon that if you’d not mentioned AG, then the debate would have stayed on 2011 Barolo. Much better to just ask opinions on the vintage, and you’ll find there will be little comment on AG, and I reckon we’ll all be happier ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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FWIW my only experience with 2011 is in Barbaresco, but actually the Nebbiolo d’Alba of a little producer called Cascina Saria. £10 a bottle and it’s cracking value, so much so I’ve just picked up a dozen. Apart from that, no experience of 2011s that I can recall, though I must have tried a couple last year in Piemonte - clearly nothing memorable!
I assumed that most of us were fairly intelligent adults with a good amount of wine knowledge. Perhaps I was wrong, especially with regards to Jay. In the future I will endeavor to write in a more simple and logical way. I promised Todd that I would play nice so I will just leave it at that. Enjoy your 2011s.
nope… to many other great wines out there that i don’t need to waste time on an inferior vintage. will look to buy more spanish.
The OP is as benign as one could be, except for rabid A.G. detractors!
Michael, you give disingenuousness a bad name. Your original post was another of your classic Galloni-fellating, attention-seeking trolls, posted solely because Galloni just issued his 2011 Barolo report. Do not whine when you catch exactly what you were trolling for. There are no other scores (whether or not Suckling published any) and little to be said about 2011 Barolo at the moment except by reference to Galloni’s scores, and those are missing many of the most important producers at this point, as I noted above. But then again, I suspect that you knew all of that. In any event, if you are going to troll, understand the rules. Trolls should be appreciative and gracious when fed their favorite foods…
I was in Piemonte for a few hours (was supposed to be more - thanks again for the delay Newark airport!) And tasted the 2011 Ravera, 2010 Bricco Pernice and 2009 Riserva Vigna Elena at Elvio Cogno. The Ravera was not quite up to the others, but still a really nice wine. Definitely on the red fruit spectrum vs the others which were more to tar/black fruits. As long as the price is good I will buy some 2011’s - as long as they drop a bit from the 2010’s
FYI on a side note they also make a pre-Phylloxora Barbera (1 barrel) that was among the beat Barberas I have tried. The winemaker, Valter Fissore, said that his US importer will get a decent allocation - 300 bottles - so worth keeping an eye out for
Not seen yet, Kevin…
Brian, Cogno wines seem to be easier to come by in the U.S. than here…
I guess we could always compare AG’s scores to previous vintages… Maybe I’ll subscribe just for the fun of it…
In a more serious attempt to respond to the OP, I’ve not made any decisions about 2011. I’d prefer to have much more info than just AG’s tns and the weather reports. I suspect I’ll pick up a small amount to hopefully find pleasurable while waiting on the vintages I expect to be more age-worthy.
Really? :
![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}
I think the price will be ugly. I’m thinking I’ll get two bottles at this point. I don’t even want to begin thinking about the 2010…
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Monfortino goes up in price at the cantina every 4 years, and that the last time this happened was 06. So it seems that the 2010 will be much more expensive in part because of the increase at the cantina, and then everything associated with 2010.
OK, I’ll bite. From your perspective, does Antonio’s 2011 reviews fit in your narrative of offering “incredibly high scores” and periodically slaughtering a sacred cow? The highest score is 96 and many top names are scoring 92 - 94.
Separately, what would you say comprises a “sizable number?” You and Bill? A high percentage of folks on this board? How would you explain the opinions of folks like Ken Vastola, Rico Thompson, Mark Scudiery and Eric Guido? In your opinion how do you explain their notes / scores which tend to be at least somewhat consistent with Antonio’s?
I’m not saying you need to agree with all of his reviews but your comment strongly implies that his business motives overshadow his objectivity and his reviews lack substance.
Yes, I would love for Jay to enlighten us all with his great knowledge about the wines of the region. And show us the error of our ways in following Galloni.
I will give you credit for convincing me to rejoin Vinous. And for the obvious need for me to spend more time there and less time here. It just makes it a lot easier to shill for Italian wine and Galloni.
Charles, I will let Jay speak for himself, but it seems to me that he was describing the Vinous/Galloni dynamic in general and not accusing Galloni of score inflation in the 2011 vintage in particular. It may or may not be so that the 2011 scores are high for the apparent lower quality of the vintage, and there are enough important scores missing or bracketed to pull the overall score profile higher, so I suggest that the jury is still out on 2011 score inflation.
As to the opinions of the gentlemen that you describe? Easy. Ken and I enjoy mixing it up and I like to discuss specific wines or wine-world phenomena with him, but a bigger Galloni homer does not exist, and with good reason…he is part of a Galloni tasting group started back in the Piedmont Report days (although I am not sure how active Galloni is in it these days). He has often been Galloni’s #1 cheerleader, and who can blame him for that? (I, too, was once a big Galloni fan, by the way, when he worked within himself, so to speak.) Ken is not my go-to guy for objective, critical commentary on Galloni’s body of work, however. (I do note that Ken, a fellow Giacosa buff, did politely call Antonio out on blowing the call on certain of the 2008 Giacosas.)
Rico was a sometime participant in the same group, and is a regular Galloni ballwasher on Vinous. No other way to perceive that. Galloni and Rico agreeing defines “the truth” for the less-experienced Vinous board members. I used to mix it up regularly with Rico on the Squires board, and I find him to be a decent chap but rather agenda-driven at times (possibly because he is ITB), strongly opinionated (I cannot be heard to complain about that, to be sure!) and to my mind, wrong too much of the time. Too much “it’s all good” when it is clearly not all good. He, too, often suffers from his own particular brand of overstatement and score inflation that dovetails nicely with Galloni’s. He seems to prefer being a self-proclaimed big fish in the tiny, impressionable newbie-dominated pools of the Squires and Vinous boards to plying the deep Nebbiolo waters found on this board.
Mark Scudiery and Eric Guido are bloggers for the fun of it, Eric recently joining the ITB ranks. Mark seems to thrive in the nearly controversy-free, uncritical, everybody-loves-Antonio and everybody-loves-Italian-wine atmosphere of the Vinous board, which I personally find stifling and not conducive to either meaningful discourse or education, any more than the Squires board is, but I accept it for what it is. (For that reason, I respect that community and its peaceful, Euro-centric culture, and do not post there. Antonio will close threads in a heartbeat to save his small but happy family from any unpleasantness, so I save him the trouble of having to! 
) To Eric’s credit, I will say that all that know him seem to view him as a passionate, earnest guy who really wants to learn about wine in general, and Nebbiolo-based wines in particular, which shines through in his posting. However, Eric is still a relative newbie in a region that requires decades of study to truly grasp, so what I see in his praise of Galloni is one relative newcomer idolizing the next guy up the ladder from him. Eric will need many more data points as he moves up the learning curve, and he will also need to learn to critically assess the value of the information received and its sources. Nebbiolo ain’t a wine where one can believe uncritically that everything that is said is true. Unfortunately, he placed himself in a position of pseudo-authority with his blog, but the authority simply is not there yet. He will not enjoy having me say it, but he is in no position to evaluate Galloni’s work yet, nor to offer profound truths on Italian wines, but that does not stop him. Fair enough. God bless him, he is now being paid for it, and to continue his wine education. Even a fogey like me is happy for him. (The difference with wine reviewers of course, being that we, not Eric’s employer, are paying for their educations.)
I speak for none of them, but in sharp contrast, lurking here you have Henry Kahn, Carl Clapper, Bill Boykin, Tom Maskell, Bob Hughes, Ken and many others, including the hard-core Nebbiolo fiends of the next generation who are constantly pumping us old farts for information. All members of that group, myself included, are surely going to agree with Galloni sometimes, because Galloni gets it right sometimes. But he gets it wrong, too, and sometimes does so with an unsupportable arrogance and false authority, rather than heeding valid criticisms and growing from it. (That, my friends, is how Parker got to be the Parker that we see before us today…listening only to the yes men and railing at his critics, rather than hearing their valid complaints.) Other times, he waffles to the point of not taking a position. Antonio is trying to make a name for himself, build a Vinous media brand and feed his family. I have no problem with that. However, he is a so-so researcher, rather poor, extremely trite and repetitive writer and a guy who is moving far too quickly, taking on too much and overselling his both experience and expertise. I cannot blame him for any of that, but I believe that it is entirely fair to call him out when it is warranted…
Some unintended truth in your last sentence, Gary, but I fear that you love a good difference of opinion too much to make a go of it. You can stick it out here, too. I will let my Vinous subscription lapse at the end of its current run, and cut off my source of raw material, and leave you and Michael S. to worship false idols in peace!
Perhaps, but I am going to give it my best non sequitured effort. And see how it goes. No doubt it is deep on here, just not so sure that it is water.