Why blend Syrah and Viognier?

WINE TALK
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I wish I had references, but my first education with the adding of Viognier to Syrah in the Northern Rhone was because of some frustrated vignerons who were upset because of the stubbornness of Syrah and it’s inability to draw early aromatics until it was many years of age. At some point a winemaker suggested adding a tiny bit of Viognier for aromatics, mainly so they could sell their barrels at an earlier age. And this is how Cote-Rotie was described to me in these old British wine books I cherished 30-35 years ago. I do remember an old Hugh Johnson article about the evolution of Cote-Rotie making this point as well.

All that other scientific bullsh*t was figured out later.

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But Thomas, that wouldn’t have applied in Tuscany or Rioja where they weren’t using aromatic grapes like Viognier. I haven’t read what Johnson wrote, but he may have been relating a story. I’d be surprised if he were passing it on as fact.

If you can find it, here’s an old paper: Robinson, G.M., and R. Robinson. A survey of anthocyanins. I.
Biochem. J. 25:1687-1705 (1931).

Not particularly wine-related, but in the study, they ranked a lot of different coloring co-factors by their ability to shift the color to blue. The gist of it is that you have coloring molecules (pigments) and other molecules that have nothing to do with color but that bind with pigments and cause the pigments to exhibit deeper and richer colors.

It’s not at all limited to wine - it’s what happens in flowers and other things. In fact, unlike wine, there’s actually been a lot of research into color because people have spent hundreds of millions over the years to produce a blue rose. It will likely never exist because of the acidic nature of the plant, but who knows.

In grapes, you have certain molecules that produce color, and some grapes have a lot of those, but just like “minerals” in the soil, there’s no correlation between the presence of something in the environment and the presence of that in your finished wine. All kinds of variables come into play - pH, temperature, etc.

So you can have anthocyanins, tannins, etc. but whether or not you can extract them from the skins and get them into your wine is a different story. So you add something that helps you extract. In this case it’s some white wine. You’re not necessarily adding it for aroma or flavor. And you need only very small amounts. Again, complete speculation here, but I’d imagine that the use of five percent or less came about because people didn’t see better results after that amount but they started picking up aromatics and non-Syrah notes.

And in fact, science has verified that as well. The old guys seem to have been on to something because at concentrations over 15%, the color enhancement and stabilization effects of the Viognier were reduced. Not sure why but there’s speculation that it may be through dilution?

The scientific bullshit was always there and could be observed by anybody. It just took guys like Newton and Kepler to explain what everyone was observing.

It’s true that people probably had no idea what the chemistry was behind some of the things they observed. They just noticed things and experimented until they got an acceptable result. Science later explained why they were right.

23

My understanding is this:

In the NorthernRhone, it can be pretty cold and they have trouble ripening the Syrah. So they planted Viognier (already present in Condrieu), which is an early
ripener. By the time the Syrah was finally ripened, the Viognier was well over-ripe. They were harvested & co-fermented, with the Viognier giving the alcohol a boost
and lessening the need for chaptalization. This practice goes back for over a hundred yrs I believe. Co-pigmentation was not even known then.
MichaelHavens did a lot of the seminal work on Co-P of Syrah and Viog at his wnry. He found that addition of Viog to the Syrah fermentation actually produced
a darker wine than just the straight Syrah ferment. As RandallGrahm would say: “Counter-intuitive”. Co-P would be a sensible practice in the NorthernRhone, but in
Calif, w/ riper grapes, there’s little need fo Co-P to achieve a darker color. Nor, obviously, to achieve higher alcohols. So, in Calif, it’s much more common to blend in Viog
post-fermentation to get an “aromatic lift”.
There are a lot of people who swear the co-frmting Viog w/ Syrah gives the wine an “aromatic lift”. Or blending in post-fermentation. I’m sorta skeptical of this claim, considering
the small amounts (1%-10%) of Viog added. I’ve done barrel blends at ZacaMesa w/ DanGehrs. He had to get above 25% Viog additions to get much of a change in the nose that I
could tell anything. And it didn’t make what I would call an “aromatic lift”, just a different nose. That’s the one data point that I have. But in co-fermented Syrah, I’ve never been able to
get anything that resembles anything at all of Viog. But if people claim they find an “aromatic lift” on co-ferments, so be it. Maybe the new Bedrock Syrahs will shed some light
on any “aromatic lift”.
My understanding from Michael is that the Co-P effect is not just particular to Viog, but for most white grapes. Hence Roussanne/Marsanne would also work.
Tom

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Tom - for the most part that coincides with anything I’ve read except that I am certain I read something about the specific qualities needed from the white grape. I found some info and I believe it was from Spain in which they tried a number of grapes. Will try to locate that and of course I may be entirely misguided - it was at least six years ago when I was doing some research for some tastings.

But as to your comment regarding the aromatics, I’m glad you found what you did. The tastings I was talking about involved Cote Rotie vs Hermitage, six of each from one vintage, specifically selecting C-R made with the Viognier precisely to see if we could detect anything different when tasting all the wines blind. Nobody was able to do it better than random chance. Did the tasting a few times, always using wines from the same vintage, and whether young or all old, it was the same result. So while the V might and probably does affect the nose, we were never able to pick up the specific Viognier aromas that we were looking for. I haven’t done it enough to identify what, if anything, would make the V-S wines distinctive on the nose or palate.

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Reading through this thread, I was having the same thought.

The color-fixing issue is well understood, but reducing the need for chaptalization in the N. Rhone definitely feels like a more likely historical reason for the pairing. As far as aromatics, I keep coming back to the Pax Koblers, some of which would have a very vivid peach aroma, something I wouldn’t associate with Syrah. Maybe it’s must part of the terrior of Kobler and has nothing to do with Viognier? We can’t know because nobody’s made a straight Syrah from the sight. The Bedrocks OTOH from Weill and the 2008 Hudsons might tell us something.

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Picking up on what others are saying, I think it was all about amelioration. Later ripening whites can add acid to riper reds. And as TomHill mentions, early ripening white can boost the impact of a later ripening red.

Thinking more, considering how often vineyards even these days end up with odd plants in the rows, I have to imagine in old days people were really planting in the dark about what they really had. And if they didn’t care so much for uniform blocks of this clone or that - they wanted diversity - I imagine you’d just plant your vines and take what fruit you got. Lots of this, some of that, and probably a few things no one knew what they were but they just used it anyway (we still do this sometimes!). Thus tradition is born.

My two cents of guessing anyway…

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Taylor as I read your comments above… it was an instant bingo moment, as I had the same thoughts.

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In 2013 I fermented a small lot of pinot on top of already pressed viognier skins. The effect on both aromatics (floral) and texture (“silkening” as Ridge says) was pretty dramatic. I didn’t notice a color difference. I’m sure pinot is a bit more transparent than syrah, but this small-scale experiment inclines me to believe in the potential of viognier co-ferments to “lift” syrah aromatics. The timing of the viognier and syrah harvests wasn’t right for co-fermentation this year, but I’ll certainly give it a whirl whenever the opportunity presents itself.

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Viognier is only legally included in Cote-Rotie … and not by blending but only by co-fermenting.
A maximum of 20% V is allowed, and as far as I´m concerned only Domaine de Vallouit used 20% in their “La Voniere” cuvee.

Otherwise it´s only legal in Condrieu and Chateau Grillet.
Elsewhere it´s illegal and the wine would have to be declassified to Vin des Pays (des Collines Rhodsaniennes).

In Hermitage and Crozes-Hermitage (I don´t think in St.Joseph) Marsanne and/or Roussanne are allowed to co-ferment up to 15% with the Syrah. Rarely is that done, I know of Marc Sorrel who uses up to 5% Masanne in his Le Greal.
No white grapes in Cornas.
No Syrah in St.Peray.

I think there are several reasons for this old historic practic:

  1. Syrah is ripening quite late, Viognier much earlier. In cool years the Viognier simply addede ripeness and sweetness to the wine, also softening the tannins and adding perfume. I´m sure the old vignerons knew nothing about the chemistry, but simply knew by experience that the wines were “better” (softer, more accessable, maybe more colour-stable) with added white grapes.

  2. There were always white grapes planted between the Syrah. When the AOC system was created in the 30ties it was simply aknowledging the pratics used for generations. It would have been foolish to sort out the white grapes during harvest - and an immense labour.

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Nicely stated. That’s my understanding of how the whole thing got started as well, though I was recently schooled by Jim Clendenen who was CERTAIN it was for the color pick up originally (I told him I thought he was wrong, by the way . . . and lived to talk about it!!!)

It’s always funny when the topic is discussed and when folks that make co-fermented syrahs discuss them with consumers - they ALWAYS talk about the ‘floral’ elements that are added by having the viognier, and lo and behold, guess what the customer gets?!?!? Yep, the power of suggestion . . . .

I did my Larner syrah this year in two ways - one co-fermented with about 13% viognier (and 100% whole cluster for both varieties) and the other just 100% whole cluster. It’ll be fun to follow how both develop . . .

At the end of the day, though, why do folks do it now? Because we all want to be like the Cote Rotie producers - duh!!! :slight_smile: [soap.gif] [swearing.gif]

Cheers!

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+1 on what Thomas K and Tom Hill shared, and others on aromatics. It’s my understanding that the floral elements of the viognier help boost the syrah’s natural floral character - you wouldn’t pick up on the viognier itself. Instead, the violet/lavender notes of the syrah would be heightened. Also, the heavier, thicker mouthfeel of viognier can smooth out a tight, acidic syrah, as well as the sweetness helping with fermentation.

The whole hinky fetish with stabilizing color is a relatively recent development (on my timeline, which is almost as long as Tom’s). Prior to the era of Parker Purple, winemakers were perfectly happy to let a wine dress itself in it’s natural colors.

And although syrah tends to be a very dark grape, it actually ripens quite early compared to other deep reds, making it a natural choice for a weekender honeymoon with the muscular Rhone whites. (Depending on where it’s grown, of course.)

Myself, I haven’t met too many winemakers that co-ferment. With syrah being as expensive as it is, and still struggling for perches in the marketplace, few winemakers want to take the risk of uncontrolled effects. Most people I know blend early, within 1-6 months of harvest.

Who asked about peaches? Like zinfandel, syrah can sometimes have a peach/apricot/nectarine aroma. I believe it’s considered attractive when it’s light - like white nectarines - but too much of a yellow stonefruit character might signal oxidation, too much time in barrel, or bacterial infection.

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Because when done right…you get La Mouline…

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I think Larry’s onto something here ^^^

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Yep, I think that’s the case.

I’m not sure why it’s “un French” to do something to stabilize color. But I also don’t think people worried about color for color’s sake. I would think that the color shift is a side effect of other things that people desired, as dark color seems to be a fairly recent fetish. The white contribution could help in extraction of other flavor and aromatic compounds. People didn’t know the chemistry, but they knew that something was happening.

And the effects are different with riper reds as well. So today, in warm climates, there’s really no reason to do it other than what Larry said.

Anyhow, here’s another study. People only talk about Cote Rotie, because that’s one of the few places still doing it today, but it was actually a common practice in many places. In fact, it was a very French thing to do!
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf405574x