When an importer completely f**** u in the a**!

Wine Pimps
41

That varies from state to state. Legal in DC, where they are, and in MA as well.

42

Also, plenty of ways to get around the law. Neil Rosenthal has a store in NYC, yes? Plenty legal for you to be the importer and your wife or brother or parent to be the retailer of record.

43

Legal in CA as well.

N Rosenthal represents a good example of circimventing the laws of NY.

44

Brent, I thougt that it was national law not a state one. I thoght that was one of the points of the 3 tier sytem. Weygandt may have license in many states as an importer but his business address is in PA. So in this case is he the importer, the distributor and the retailer? Any other examples of Importers who are reatilers Kermit Lynchperhaps??

Here is the language from the Business of wine segment of the WSET Diploma.
_In repealing Prohibition in 1934, Congress adopted the 21st Amendment to the Constitution.
This Amendment gave individual states the rights to control or restrict aspects of the alcoholic
beverages trade. This means that each state imposes its own excise taxes and rules
governing who can and who cannot buy and sell alcoholic beverages, how they can be sold
and so forth. In addition, the 21st Amendment sought to avoid the corruption and marketing
abuses within the earlier two-tier system by creating what we have today in the U.S.—the
mandatory three tier system—thus separating suppliers from retailers. Since the enactment of
the 21st Amendment, it had generally been assumed that the Amendment supercedes the
Interstate Commerce Clause, but this is no longer always the caseSince 1934, courts have struggled to balance state and federal interests with regard to the
direct shipment of alcoholic beverages. States rely on their authority under the 21st
Amendment, while federal interests revolve around on the Commerce Clause, the Sherman
Antitrust Act, and the First Amendment.
Today, wines and spirits are for the most part sold in the U.S. through the “three-tier system.”
The three tiers are:

  1. Producers
  2. Wholesalers
  3. Retailers (including both on- and off-premise outlets)
    Alcohol control is primarily a state matter in the U.S. rather than a federal matter. While rules and regulations differ greatly among states, all states respect the need for a three-tier structure, separating the production tier from the retailing tier._


    I was busy with this post and missed the additional posts. WTF is the point ot the 3 tier sytem if anyone can circumvent it. [scratch.gif]
45

Mark,

This is the nut of XXI :

The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.

Nothing about tiers or anything else. All of that is the creation of each State.

A.

46

Fear

47

FWIW, I’ve met Steve and he’s a nice guy. grouphug

48

Tom

You are a restaurant, you must get all of his allocations just for pouring his PG by the glass! neener

49

Naaa. I think it is profit at the expense of the consumer.

50

Mark,

This is all legal gibberish. You can incorporate 100 different LLC’s for each branch of your business. Most of the NYC big guys have separate warehousing/trucking companies for offsite storage and delivery. For example, Atlantic Imports is the MA wholesaler owned by the Siegal family who also owns Marty’s retail store. Marty’s ‘buys’ from Atlantic Imports at the same posted MA prices as any other retailer. Checks go out, money is moved, but at the end of the day it’s going into the same ‘pocket’ as the principals are the same. It’s all legal, and frankly I don’t see anything wrong with it. Atlantic is actually a pretty large operation now and there is less incentive to undercut other retailers who are buying the products wholesale with your shelf pricing. That keeps prices stable and they’re making their profits through the various cuts (wholesaler profit=markup off FOB, retailer profit=markup off wholesale) so what is the incentive to undercut everyone else and piss them off?

As far as the licensing, in Weygandt’s case it is either perfectly legal for him to have both the import company and retail store, or he could have a business partner as the person of record for the other license. Not too hard to do, and once again perfectly legal and what’s wrong with that?

51

Dan - I said he’s a nice guy. I didn’t say I buy his wines. [wink.gif]

52

thanx tom. i posted earlier but i don’t see it in the thread, it was something along these lines:

I have worked hard to develop long term relationships with our customers, both on and off premise, forgoing the quick, large one time drop in favor of generating organic growth favorable for building brands. i haven’t had a down half or twelve months in 4+ years so something must be working thank goodness. on the couple occasions i have been told “i deserve” or “i’m entitled to…” it makes me sstop and wonder exactly what is going on (As it isn’t a two sided conversation anymore). i’m not claiming to be perfect but thats where i’m coming from.

dan – hopefully you hve a good enough relatinoship with your importer rep to call a spade a spade and call them out for not taking care of you as a long term supporter of their products. if that doesn’t resolve anything i’m sure you’ll do what you need to moving forward, but in no way do i think you, or me, or anyone is “entitled” to anything unless it has been worked out previously. if that makes me a prick, so be it, but i gotta call them like i see em. as i already posted the price increase is complete horseshit…

53

It’s allowed in DC. Many stores there are also importers

54

This isn’t a knock on Weygandt or Steve…or any importer or wholesaler in particular…

This is NOT the year to do something dumb like slash allocations or jack up prices or not cut deals. Sure, Weygandt and several others are going to making a KILLING on 07 Rhones this year, but what are you REALISTICALLY going to sell next year?

08 Rhone? Good f***ing luck!
07 and 08 Burgundy? Fat chance when the Euro is trading at 1.50+.
Not much from Italy is that hot anymore.
Alsace? Germany? Austria? Right…no one getting rich on new vintages here.
Champagne? Nope.
08 Bordeaux? Anyone notice C&E is out of the Bordeaux biz and that PC sent out a flier to pretty much everyone hocking 08 1st Growths at stupid low prices???

Forget the economy, you ain’t selling wine next year, no one had a “Vintage of the XXXXXX”, and everyone will be officially burnt out my March with all the dumping that’s going to happen.

55

Well - I have no problem saying it - Posner - you got hosed. As I was taught growing up that sort of “loyalty” doesn’t win friends and influence people. Screw 'm. There is plenty of other classic quality CdP without the BS this year. Buy around them and don’t return their phone calls in 2010 when they want to make you a deal.

56

Could not agree with this post more…

57

newhere so bear with me.

But, according to Weygandt’s web page, he’s not a distributor in NY, David Bowler is…Soooooooo isn’t Posner’s question really to be directed there?

This isn’t my biz so I’m asking b/c, well, I’m confused.

58

Yes and no. Bowler warned me of the problems with these allocations via Weygandt.

59

Okay, Thanks Dan.

Are the prices you pay the same as your competitor? And, would they be the same by state?

I’m asking b/c, well, unless we see price sheets how do you know you’re not being singled out?

60

Chris

Good question. According to Bowler, no one received more than 3 btls of the wine.

Ian, of WL, can chime in about his allocation.