From the post, I’m not sure how they are trying to impose this as an actual contractual obligation on the purchaser. That said, thanks for the heads up to avoid Vinotemp. Scumbags just for trying that.
Look at the Cellar Tracker forum to see the latest development.
Wow…never heard of Kleargear, but I’ll seek to avoid them as well. Hope the Palmers nail them to the wall.
Todd, I hope a cross-post for this subject is ok. Pretty wild stuff.
Reading that post on CT was just too much drama for me…
Yep. Just be glad it wasn’t you!
Where is Vinotemp located? Anyone know? Some states have consumer protection statutes that can be brought to bear.
You can sue anyone for anything. That doesn’t mean it will hold up in court. This is a form of “lawsuit bullying” that scares folks with the fear of having to “lawyer up” at great personal cost to clear their good name. What goes around, comes around - this is bad business at its worst.
unfortunately putting something on your credit is a real thing and a super hassle to take off.
Vinotemp’s non-disparagement clause is now getting more negative publicity:
Here’s a good one. Check out how they’ve modified and renamed their Non-Disparagement clause to “Honest Feedback” and changed the terms slightly as well. I suspect they got so much negative press from here and other sites they’ve slightly changed their tune…though not by much.
HONEST FEEDBACK: In an effort to ensure fair and honest public feedback, and to prevent the publishing of libelous content in any form, your acceptance of this sales contract prohibits you from taking any action that negatively impacts Vinotemp, its reputation, products, services, management or employees, unless you: (A) have first communicated with Vinotemp, and (B) taken any unresolved issue heard by an independent mediator with ADR Services in Los Angeles, CA. Should you not follow this process, Vinotemp in its sole discretion, you will be provided a seventy-two (72) hour opportunity to retract the content in question, until after mediation. If the content remains, in whole or in part, you will immediately be billed US$3,500.00 for your share of the mediation costs, and legal fees associated with establishing the mediation. Should these charges remain unpaid for 30 calendar days from the billing date, your unpaid invoice will be forwarded to our third party collection firm and will be reported to consumer credit reporting agencies until paid.
Here’s the old one for ease of reading/comparing.
Non-Disparagement Clause
In an effort to ensure fair and honest public feedback, and to prevent the publishing of libelous content in any form, your acceptance of this sales contract prohibits you from taking any action that negatively impacts Vinotemp, its reputation, products, services, management or employees. Should you violate this clause, as determined by Vinotemp in its sole discretion, you will be provided a seventy-two (72) hour opportunity to retract the content in question. If the content remains, in whole or in part, you will immediately be billed $3,500.00 USD for legal fees and court costs until such complete costs are determined in litigation. Should these charges remain unpaid for 30 calendar days from the billing date, your unpaid invoice will be forwarded to our third party collection firm and will be reported to consumer credit reporting agencies until paid.
Interesting definition of “honest feedback” - Vinotemp decides in its sole discretion what is “honest”.
Given it is CA in particular, I am surprised that the CA governmental agency overseeing consumer issues and the CA AG’s office have given this behavior a pass (I assume that individuals involved have brought this to their attention through filing complaints).
Again, particularly in CA, I could see the legislature passing a bill making it illegal to intimidate a customer from posting reviews or otherwise commenting if such comments are truthful. I wonder if any state has that on the books…
My guess is that there would need to be an actual case before they would intervene - i.e., someone posts something that Vinotemp then asserts violates this policy and seeks to collect money on. The relevant agency might intervene in the court proceeding.
an update on the Kleargear end of things
Our suit also named the debt collector Fidelity Information Corp., who by this point owned the debt. Now Fidelity has done an independent review of the case and reported to the credit agencies that the debt was erroneous. So the Palmers have a measure of relief – the KlearGear debt is off John’s credit report, finally, after 18 months. Today the Palmers voluntarily dismissed Fidelity from the lawsuit.
Apparently Kleargear has yet to respond to the complaint and have shuttered all social media presence.
Here is a copy of the lawsuit:
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/929250-palmer-v-kleargear-complaint.html
“(B) taken any unresolved issue heard by an independent mediator with ADR Services in Los Angeles, CA.”
Who drafted this?
your acceptance of this sales contract prohibits you from taking any action
So… if I get my wife(or anyone who did not purchase the cellar) to write a review for me, I should be good right?
I don’t actually own one, I got a artevino by eurocave from Costco and have been very happy with it thus far.
Wish we could at least that get that much resolution. VinoTemp sold my imaginary debt, for a cabinet that was never even in the same zip code as I am and that they still have, or even already sold to someone as else, as far as I know–assuming any specific cabinet ever existed in the first place–to not one, but TWO, debt collection agencies. Both of which added their own “fees and charges” to the already hysterically astronomical amount VinoTemp claims I owe them (basically 90% of the cabinet’s cost) and have reported BOTH nonexistent, fantasy “debts.” By the way, both so-called “debts” are a higher amount than the entire cabinet would have been.
So, now I have two so-called “debts” on my credit, plus VinoTemp saying they’ll potentially sue me if I don’t pay them what they’re asking, another ludicrous $5,000-or so amount, and all for something that I never even freaking saw and for which they had, and held, my money for, for seven months without giving me a cotton pickin’ thing, all the while lying to me, repeatedly, in writing, about it’s delivery date, completion status and whereabouts. So, they’re basically saying I owe them–which, I know I actually don’t and will never, not even if hell really does freeze over give them–for air and B.S.
And, yes, we did hire a lawyer. And, yes, we did contest the so-called “debts,” in writing, with both debt collection agencies, AND the credit bureaus, as well as VinoTemp and, so far (5 weeks later), diddly squat has happened. No response from anyone, anywhere, other than the bogus “debts” showing up on my credit.
While many keep saying I’ll win if it comes to court and I have zero plan to give ANYTHING to VinoTemp, this is sure a royal pain in the butt (to put it mildly) and I’m shocked and awed by what VinoTemp is doing to me is. I don’t understand how it’s legal to just slam someone with fake debts, sold, apparently, to multiple collectors even, because it sure as hell isn’t honest, fair or OK in any sense of those words. (And forgive me if I’m misunderstanding the process, because I have zero knowledge of debt collectors and how they work because I’ve never, ever not paid a valid debt in my life.)
EDIT: To be clear, VinoTemp is not saying they’re charging me for posting online (though I might have my suspicions that, that’s why they’re pursuing this, I have no proof at all to back that gut feeling up), as that clause didn’t exist in the paperwork I signed. They’re attempting to charge me supposed “restocking” and “delivery” fees for an item that never left their stock, was never even near me, let alone in my possession, and on which delivery was never even attempted, let alone refused.
The short version: I placed an order and paid in full in April 2013, in August 2013 after four months of “it will be there next week” promises–at least 12 scheduled delivery dates that came and went without anything occurring–I told them I didn’t want anything from them. They refused to refund anything and I contested the credit card charge and was told my credit was permanent in October 2013. I started receiving debt collection notices and letters purporting to be from VinoTemp’s lawyer’s in January 2014.
I imagine you’ve already researched this, but generally you should be pretty well protected on this stuff. Here’s info from the US FTC:
In addition to helping out our members who are currently being screwed over, we need to make sure NOT A SINGLE BERSERKER/WINE LOVER/POTENTIAL VICTIM EVER MAKES THE GRAVE MISTAKE OF ENTERING A CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH VINOTEMP!
I can say that as I’ve never signed away my rights as a human being to this company.
Long before this latest insult, Vinotemp had built quite a reputation for horribleness among our little community. Several years ago, I was looking for a storage solution and Vinotemp was in the running. Fortunately, searches of this forum and others revealed to me a long history of customer service problems with Vinotemp. But one had to look carefully. Hopefully, all this will help to amplify that.
Hey, Vinotemp! [1928_middle_finger.gif]