TN: Sierra Car Crash tasting at Grapes

WINE TALK
41

Daniel:

Thanks again for yesterday.

I have posted in response to John Kight on the eBob board. Here’s is the link:
http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/showthread.php?p=2736496#post2736496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

42

[quote=“Adam Ifshin
I have posted in response to John Kight on the eBob board. Here’s is the link:
http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/showthread.php?p=2736496#post2736496” onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]

Adam [thumbs-up.gif]

43

C’mon Dan. She is very qualified to give her ratings. After all, she has been tasting for years with RP. That is all the qualifications one needs to be a reviewer. [tease.gif]

44

You gentlemen certainly love to pat each other on the back for beating dead horses.

45

Funny…a couple of years ago, I picked up two bottles of 04 Panarroz while searching for some QPR wines to serve when small cookouts turn into parties. I opened a bottle up during one such event, and all I can remember is that it had some form of VA that wouldn’t die. I’m kind of sensitive to VA, but this was over the top. I just searched my Gmail inbox and found the email I sent to a buddy:

“OK…This sh*t is undrinkable. It is super, super, acidic, and I’m not letting anyone here drink it.”

46

Nice to meet all of you yesterday and thanks to Daniel for providing such tasty treats for our gustatory pleasure, [suicide.gif]

Its very refreshing to read the comments on this board, compared to the iron fist that runs things over at http://www.eRobertshutupweareright.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wont post my notes on the entire lineup, I will just state the obvious…Sierra Carche is fucking nightmare of a wine.

All 4 bottles reeked of a hypothetical blend of dead animals and nail polish (Embalming fluid?) with flavors and nuances that only someone “posing” as a scrupulous and investigatory wine critique could “admire” or at least proclaim to- varnish, dog breath, Swamp Thing and rotting hay were adjectives that were thrown around. I remember looking up to find Posner with a gigantic grin, nose deep in the glass saying “Eww… What the…what the hell is that? Seriously, WHAT is it that I smell?!?”. Lost for words, I think that pretty much sums it up.

All I want to know is where did the Emperor get his bottles, because what we drank was swill and as a longtime advocate FOR The Wine Advocate, I feel taken.

47

Kent, I had a similar experience with the 04 and the 05. My face must have looked like the expression on your avatar as I tasted the wine. hitsfan

48

David:

Here’s what I wrote in response to another post there. I agree with you.

John:

There were multiple tasters tasting the wines. 14 people, I believe had it yesterday. Many of them are unbashed fans of Spanish wines, of Miller’s reviews and style preferences, and some fof them hugely knowledgable about the region, the grapes, the growing conditions, the wine maker, etc. Four bottles were tasted from 3 different sources. I have tasted blind for over twenty years. There was, in my personal opinion, very little bottle variation between the four. Similarly, the issues with the material in the bottle (I’m hesitant to call it wine) were not things related to storage, etc. there was no evidence fo TCA for example in any of the SC bottles. This “wine” was uniformly terrible and undrinkable. This tasting occurred less than six weeks after RMP et al re-tasted the wine. The only conclusion is that the wine sent and sold at least the three locations we tasted from yesterday was NOT the same wine, Miller initiatally tasted and rated (and he has said this on line in response to the bottle Kenney sent him that he ultimately tasted).

To myself, and to Miller, there is no question that the wine tasted and rated is not the wine many many American consumers got. the tasting yesterday confirms that the second bottle Miller tasted was NO FLUKE.That leads to a different set of questions. Many of them have been asked before. Notably, did the critic and his publication do EVERYTHING possible to preserve the integrity of the tasting and rating process to meet their self-stated obligation to their customer, the wine consumer? Thus far, that question has not been satisfactory answered for many. Further, the decision not to remove Miller’s initial rating (OR TO AT LEAST CAVEAT IT WITH HIS OWN SECOND TASTING IMPRESSION) leaves the wine consumer who does not regularly partake of various bulletin boards UNAWARE THAT THE CRITIC HIMSELF HAS STATED THERE ARE ISSUES HERE. At a minimum, it seems that the wine public deserves complete and total disclosure.

Great to meet you David and everyone else. Perhaps our next Grapes tasting will feature the same company and great food but better wine.

49

You must be referring to the dead animal component in the Carche’s aromatics…

50

Perhaps, but also to the continual joy that people seem to get from thrashing through this issue again and again despite the fact that nobody will ever get satisfaction. Before I registered I read much of the discussion on this subject here and elsewhere, and I cannot help but say that the repetitiveness is mind numbing. I’ve seen similar type debates regarding football or cricket, and as with this one, they never reach any kind of resolution.

51

As a participant, I was motivated by morbid curiosity more than the desire to beat a dead horse. How bad could it be? After all the discussion, I wanted to find out for myself.

The answer was, “Pretty bad,” but no worse than the other two Jumillas in the tasting, and only a slightly notch down from some of the other dreck in the line-up. Some of the other folks there would probably have a different take, but for me the problem with the SC was as much one of balance as actual technical defects.

52

Davis,

Can you add something, or are you just saying a bunch of nothing. If you can’t see the picture we draw, then move on.

It gets boring listening to the same whine from people who have no interest in this or learning things from this kind of thing.

I don’t open threads on "what wine to drink with “The Barber of Seville”…and if I did, I wouldn’t be annoying enough to comment the way you did.

Just move on.

53

Davis

This tasting was set up two months ago. Thank you for chiming in.

Can you show me other tasting notes from events such as this regarding Sierra Carche?

There must be dozens out there.

I will be satisfied when a full investigation is conducted. Thus far, all we have is Parker saying he sent some emails to Spain, an importer saying lab results were fine and Mrs. Robert Parker giving the wine 93 points.

Then you have 14 people in my store yesterday tasting the wine blind against some decent competition. This wine stood out in a very bad way.

Only it did not for Parker. Funny how that works.

I am awaiting his tasting of this wine on his video blog, as he promised…waiting…waiting…

54

Hi John,

At least Panarroz is a $6 wine. Expectations are usually low and the wine normally not that bad. Carche was a total rip-off at the discounted price of…$30?

55

Daniel,

Why are you so angry? I would be afraid to set foot in your shop lest you attack someone with a bottle.

56

I just wish that Mark Clinard would have made it like he had “planned”. He, of course, is the moneyman behind WellspoiledWines, the creator and importer, of the wine. And possibly one of the bottle openers of the wine for Dr. BIGJay Miller. He was scheduled to come to the tasting, until he had a horrible, but well timed mishap, and hurt is back. He was on major pain killers, which could either be from hurting his back, or drinking the Sierra Carche. [whistle.gif] Either way, both are very painful.

Anyone know where to send flowers, or a case of SC to Mark while he is healing?

57

This confirms that you have absolutely zero to say. Just here to be annoying. Well done Davis. [thumbs-up.gif]

58

Davis

You are confusing anger with frustration.

It is frustrating to read lies on top of lies on top of lies, regarding this issue. Maybe you do not see that, but presumably, you have not read or investigated or studied this situation as much as I have.

Parker came out and indicated that he would get to the bottom of this situation. What he meant was the bottle of Mrs. Parker’s 93 point btl of Sierra Carche. Because, beyond that, all he and Jay Miller have done is create another black eye on their faces with this one.

Jay came out and said the wine was awful and there was fraud. For legal reasons, he had to say that he did not mean “fraud.”

Where is the further investigation? You may be afraid to come in here, but I am fighting for what I think is right here. As a wine consumer, I would be scared to buy another wine like this again. That is what you should be afraid of.

Incidentally, I had a lunch with an importer today. One of the wines we tried was a 2007 Shiraz that they are having trouble selling. Miller gave it a “low” score last year. 4-5 points than previous vintages. He mentioned that before driving the wine down to Baltimore for Jay Miller to taste, they double decanted the wine in NY and tasted it and were unhappy with how it showed. They had hoped the 4 hours open in the car would help, but alas it did not and they got stuck with a crappy review.

How many importers open that bottle, sample like that, and are not content with the contents to show Jay Miller, so maybe they do something to the contents, just tweak it a little bit? If you do not think it happens, then clearly you have not been listening. Even Parker says that he has been the victim of this stuff, admittedly, about 20 times in his career. That is 20 times that he knows of and admits to.

Frightening.

Not me.

The situation.

59

Isn’t Car Crash a heavy painkiller in and of itself?

Have a 2004 Pico Madama I’ve been planning on opening this weekend … will report.

60

Thank you for clarifying Daniel, but how many times has someone sampled you on a wine that they doctored? Do you know? Of course not. Even a lengthy decant is in a way fraudulent, as the majority of consumers would never do that. They just want a nice bottle of wine to open when they get home and have dinner.

I do not run into a great many Parker scores in my wine buying. I don’t see many shelf talkers and my merchants don’t mention the scores to me. Perhaps that’s because I don’t buy much unusual wine (mostly a Burgundy, Bordeaux guy myself) that needs a push, but I just don’t see it. Spending a lot of time in the UK likely has a lot to do with it as well.

But my question for you is “what is the truth?” I suspect that regardless of what has been or will be written, put on a blog (dreadful things) or video it will never convince someone like you who has already buried his spade in the dirt. You cannot back off even if Christ himself brings you the story. There is no truth out there that you can believe.