TN: 2015 Kabinetts, mostly Mosel, familiar faces and new names

[John_Morris]

@Vinod S.

True, but based on their increase in pricing and the possibility they locked in prices earlier with their broader riesling offer, figured there’s a decent chance it’s at least partially pound. I would expect a $5-10 spread, not $10-15 between US and UK markets.

Particularly when you consider that UK retail prices include 20% VAT, while US prices are usually given without sales tax.

[Lars_Carlberg]

Thanks for your well-written post, John. For the purposes of the tasting, I can see why you decanted the wines. But I almost never decant Mosel Riesling (even if it does help if a wine has reduced notes), as some of the spritz (aromatics), liveliness, and freshness would be lost. This is especially true of residually sweet Kabinett wines.

As mentioned above, the 2015 Enkircher Ellergrub Kabinett from Weiser-Künstler seems to be in a difficult phase.

Franzen, by the way, is located in the Lower Mosel. It’s also Skurnik Wines.

I like that you kept the tasting to eight wines, with a good mix of producers.

[Russell_Faulkner]

@John Morris

@Vinod S.

True, but based on their increase in pricing and the possibility they locked in prices earlier with their broader riesling offer, figured there’s a decent chance it’s at least partially pound. I would expect a $5-10 spread, not $10-15 between US and UK markets.

Particularly when you consider that UK retail prices include 20% VAT, while US prices are usually given without sales tax.

Yes the prices I quoted included VAT.

[Robert_Panzer]

@Michae1 P0wers

I opened a Max Ferd. Richter Veldenzer Elisenberg Kabinett last night that was just rocking right out of the gate. Stone fruit, fruit cocktail, minerals, petrol; lots of fruit but not too sweet at all. I found that, similar to John’s note about the '15s generally, there were moments where the acid, though totally adequate, seemed subsumed by the abundant fruit. I really should get more of these while they are still on the market. I’ve drank a lot of the Donnhoff QbA Riesling to date and it is also a great Riesling but I have a feeling it is going to be hard to not drink these young.

I’m pouring nearly the entire range of '15 Richter wines (21 different wines…!!) on Sunday for a small group.
Should be awesome…
Indeed, this VE Kab is a silly silly silly good value.
I am yet to get my refill of the '15s rolling from the winery, so now is the time if you want to get in on the action.
Also, fwiw, I sell the Prüm WS Kab for less than $33.

As to pricing in the US vs UK, I am with Herr Colangelo. It is an aggressive iteration of the three tier system.

As to a lack of acidity, the '15s lack not. One may not perceive the acid as there is ripe fruit to enrobe it, but we are talking 8-9 g/L acidity for nearly any example that I know of. That is high acid, no matter how you slice it. Perhaps the fact that the acid and fruit are in balanced proportion allows some tasters to think that if the acid doesn’t stick out relative to the fruit that there isn’t enough acid??..balance is always to the key to me.

I called it a year ago after tasting in April '16, seemingly with only more and more affirmation as others have chimed in since, the '15s are outstanding.

As a side note, I asked about the '16s from team Rudi Wiest (Cellars International), and got this reply:
“WAY better than expected and very great, showing awesome out of the gate. . .Tim Fröhlich said he thinks the 16’s are better! . . .it just took 4 times the effort, labor, wage costs, etc. etc.” I, too, am always skeptical of “the next vintage for sale is the vintage of a lifetime” kind of hoopla, but if Tim said that his '16s are better than his '15s, good lord!!

[Robert_Dentice]

Great tasting. I agree with Lars the WS Ellergrub is in an odd place. Overall their wines are stunning.

[John_Morris]

@Lars Carlberg

Thanks for your well-written post, John. For the purposes of the tasting, I can see why you decanted the wines. But I almost never decant Mosel Riesling (even if it does help if a wine has reduced notes), as some of the spritz (aromatics), liveliness, and freshness would be lost. This is especially true of residually sweet Kabinett wines.

As mentioned above, the 2015 Enkircher Ellergrub Kabinett from Weiser-Künstler seems to be in a difficult phase.

Franzen, by the way, is located in the Lower Mosel. It’s also Skurnik Wines.

I like that you kept the tasting to eight wines, with a good mix of producers.

Someone from Skurnick was the first person to suggest to me decanting young rieslings several years ago, and I’ve found it works well.

Did you see Adrian’s post (#2 above) about ferment problems with the Weiser-Künstler?

I didn’t see Skurnick’s name on the Franzen bottle, and Franzen is not listed on their website. Schatzi was formed by an ex-Skurnick guy, so perhaps he took the brand with him. Of course, you’re right on it being Lower Mosel; I always think in map terms (where it is above the Middle Mosel) but the term is based on the flow of the river (and it’s on the lower portion of the river). My mistake.

[David_Bu3ker]

Franzen was never in the Theise portfolio.

[Lars_Carlberg]

@John Morris

@Lars Carlberg

Thanks for your well-written post, John. For the purposes of the tasting, I can see why you decanted the wines. But I almost never decant Mosel Riesling (even if it does help if a wine has reduced notes), as some of the spritz (aromatics), liveliness, and freshness would be lost. This is especially true of residually sweet Kabinett wines.

As mentioned above, the 2015 Enkircher Ellergrub Kabinett from Weiser-Künstler seems to be in a difficult phase.

Franzen, by the way, is located in the Lower Mosel. It’s also Skurnik Wines.

I like that you kept the tasting to eight wines, with a good mix of producers.

Someone from Skurnick was the first person to suggest to me decanting young rieslings several years ago, and I’ve found it works well.

Did you see Adrian’s post (#2 above) about ferment problems with the Weiser-Künstler?

I didn’t see Skurnick’s name on the Franzen bottle, and Franzen is not listed on their website. Schatzi was formed by an ex-Skurnick guy, so perhaps he took the brand with him. Of course, you’re right on it being Lower Mosel; I always think in map terms (where it is above the Middle Mosel) but the term is based on the flow of the river (and it’s on the lower portion of the river). My mistake.

I just meant that the name is spelled Skurnik Wines. That’s all. I know that Kevin Pike of Schatzi Wines has Franzen and Knebel in his portfolio now. If decanting works for you, that’s great. I rarely see a producer do this to a young German Riesling.

Thanks, I did see Adrian’s post.

It’s an honest mistake. You correctly had Terrassenmosel.

[dteng]

@John Morris

I revisited the wines tonight. The only big change was the Weiser-Kunstler, which went sharply downhill and seemed slightly off.

I liked the Vollenweider a little less tonight. The Lauer and Schaefer were slightly better. The AJ Adam and Prum improved substantially. The Adam took on several more dimensions, and I’d put it right up at the top on day 2. The Prum, meanwhile, showed an intense poire William flavor on the nose, in the mouth and on the finish – like pure essense of pear.

Had similar experience on the Prum.
Totally different wine on subsequent days (2 and 3), just beautiful.

[Paul_McCourt]

I’ve bought about a half case each of the Adams, Lauer, J.J. and Donn.

I keep feeling that I should load up and get more.

[Lars_Carlberg]

A group of friends and I tasted several flights of 2015 Kabinetts last November. I wrote down our impressions in an article, with a few of the same wines. For those who are interested, the report has a lot of details about the wines.

[Scott_Everson]

Somewhat on topic, I have one magnum of the 2015 Prum Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett, and three mags of the 2015 Prum WS Kabinett. When should I drink them? I have none in the 750 or 375mL formats.

[John_Morris]

@Scott Everson

Somewhat on topic, I have one magnum of the 2015 Prum Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett, and three mags of the 2015 Prum WS Kabinett. When should I drink them? I have none in the 750 or 375mL formats.

This is a case where it really depends on your preference. I happen to like even my Kabinetts quite old. I’m sampling but generally holding my 01s and 02s from the Mosel. And Prum’s wines tend to be particularly long-lived. Others prefer to drink their rieslings younger, when they’re more primary.

[Howard_Cooper]

One thing that fascinates me about German wines is that, as John relates in his OP, you don’t really pay a premium for top producers like Prum, Schaefer, Selbach, Zilliken, etc., over younger producers that make good wine but are currently less than fully proven on how the wines will age. Where else in the world do you not pay a premium for the wines from really top producers [obviously big exception is Egon Mueller.]

[Chris_Seiber]

That Prum is the best sub $30 young Riesling I’ve ever had. Amazing stuff.

[Scott_Everson]

Let’s ask it this way: Is it worth trying to save one of my few mags of 2015 Prum Kabinett for my daughter’s 21st birthday (she was born in 2015), or by then (2036) are we into Spatlese/Auslese territory only? John would seem to indicate it’s worth a try … Any detractors?

[Lars_Carlberg]

Why not? If properly stored, mags age even slower than normal or half-bottles.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Scott Everson

Let’s ask it this way: Is it worth trying to save one of my few mags of 2015 Prum Kabinett for my daughter’s 21st birthday (she was born in 2015), or by then (2036) are we into Spatlese/Auslese territory only? John would seem to indicate it’s worth a try … Any detractors?

I would think the Kabinetts would be fine at 25 years old, but Prum is really known for the high quality of their Spatlesen and, esp., Auslesen. Not really a detractor as I think the Kabinett will be quite good. But, frankly, you are going to want some 2015 WS Auslese. And, for aging, get the Wehlener Sonnenuhr. Again, wines from any of their single vineyards will age well, but in 21 years you are going to wish you had bought Wehlener Sonnenuhr.

[Jayson_Cohen]

Scott,

I expect your mags (assuming they are sound bottles) will be great in 2036. Both Graacher Himmelreich and Wehlener Sonnenuhr Kabinett have established track records for aging. I have had at least 97, 98, 01, and '02 WS out of bottle over the last couple years, all great. Still very fresh in my view.

To Howard’s point you do need the spatlesen and auslesen too! I own the non-auction Prum WS lineup in 2015 and expect to be drinking them into old age.

[Jay_Miller]

@Scott Everson

Somewhat on topic, I have one magnum of the 2015 Prum Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett, and three mags of the 2015 Prum WS Kabinett. When should I drink them? I have none in the 750 or 375mL formats.

I would drink them either in the next year or in the next 10-60 years. I had the great pleasure of drinking some Prum Kabinetts from the '70s before Salil left for parts unknown and they were stellar. And those were 750s, not magnums.