I’m sure. But there’s a major self-selection issue on CT: People tend to drink and post on the wines they’ve already chosen to buy. And few are tasted blindly.
John,
Thank you for sharing. I haven’t had a SQN white yet…but I would also assume that the Petite Manning is where the major acidity is coming from (based solely on my experiences with the Didier Dageneau and a few other unknown producers). I always seem to pick-up more acidity on those wines than others seem to notice. With such high acidity and the oak dialed up (to 11); why don’t you see this wine aging well?
The combination of it seeming to have quite mature flavors and the high alcohol gives me pause on the ageability. It didn’t taste like a fresh, young wine. But, as I said above, “Who knows?”
Ok, thanks…that was helpful. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Back on the chardonnay issue, I also find that roussane and marsanne don’t have strong varietal fingerprints either. Maybe that’s because I don’t drink a lot of them, but even in top producers in the Rhone, I don’t think of the grapes giving the wines their character. They can seem a little neutral, even if the wines are good.
There… that should endear me even more to you all. 
Happy to see this note. I usually hold my SQN whites a few years before starting to drink them. Looks like it’s time to pop one.
John, I’m with you on Chardonnay often lacking a unique identifying character. When I can pick one out it’s often some non-varietal characteristic that gets me there. Roussanne, however, often has an oily texture and an umami note that gives it away.
We had the 2006 The Hoodoo Man on Xmas Eve and loved it - no sign of fading.
39% Roussanne, 31% Viognier and 30% Chardonnay.
I’m not sure what you say about Roussanne amounts to qualities of the grape. The oiliness sounds like a structural quality, and one that I suspect has mostly to do with the level and types of alcohols and the acid/pH. This is akin to what I said to being able to recognize white Burgundy and Chablis sometimes by the acidity.
I’ve never been sure what a umami note is, so I’m not sure how that plays into this. I grew up in a world with only four tastes and haven’t yet come to terms with umami.
John,
I’m a bit like you…a bit old-fashioned (you ever try to connect up to the InterNet w/ your punched card reader!!!) and not always sure I can recognize that
umami flavor in foods. TraderJoe’s sells a little tube of Umami flavor, made from salt/anchovies/tomatoes/other stuff. Doesn’t taste very good on its own/by itself.
But, like Worchester Sauce, a little goes a long ways. I use it in salad dressings and soups and find a little squirt really can make a big difference in
the savoriness & interest of those.
Tom
My wife uses dried Aleppo pepper paste a lot, often with dried tomato paste. Pretty much anything you add those to is addictive, so I’ve had a hunch they were high in umami. Evidently Parmesan cheese is high in umami, too.
Incidently, I just posted in another thread on Jamie Goode’s book on wine flavor chemistry, which has some material relevant here. Most specifically:
-
Some grapes do not have the “impact compounds” that we perceive distinctly and powerfully (as in grapes like muscat and sauvignon blanc). Chardonnay must be one of those.
-
Oiliness (e.g., roussanne) is a function of pH/acid.
John,
I would agree in general about the ‘oiliness’ statement above - but I would also submit that certain varieties, like Roussanne and Marsanne, have a higher % of dissolved solids in them, leading to a magnification of that sensation.
Cheers.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight.
If you were tasting blind, would that distinguish them from, say, semillon, which also tends to be oily?
I tend not to find semillons to be oily in my experience - but have probably not tasted as many of them as you have. And my guess is that with lower alc semillons, like those usually produced in Australia, you would not tend to get that oiliness - correct?
Cheers.
I don’t have a lot of experience with the Australians. Semillion-heavy Bordeaux tends to have that oiliness. I assume that’s why they blend it with sauvignon blanc – they complement each other.
A (dry) 2015 Rieussec blanc I had a few days ago, which is heavy on semillion, had that oily texture. And white Bordeauxs usually aren’t too high in ABV.
It’s like being on camera, the label adds 10 points.
Climens, Doisy Daene l’Extravagant and Coutet Cuvee Madame are all made with100% Semillon. There are probably other white Bordeaux made from 100% Semillon as well. I personally do not find those wines oily. But oily is a common characteristic I often experience in white Rhone wines
Perhaps because the alcohol and pH are both typically higher in the Rhone.
Sounds like Prairie Home Companion where all of the children are above average. Recent tasting of this wine received a B+ in our group which probably translates to 89/90 points. A 97 point wine for us would only be once a year or so. Some years we have not come across anything that would rate above 95.
I think 97 points is a bit “high”, but these are unique wines and they are very interesting to drink. Given the price, the question is less about how many points would you give them and more about whether you would buy them again. For the most part, I buy one or two of his whites a year because I find them so different. I wouldn’t want to drink them regularly, but a couple times a year they are a pleasure.
I have never given thought to the idea that Chardonnay does not have any real markers, so I’m going to have to try some blind experiments. Interesting observation.
When you think about it, the typical New World chardonnay is marked by its oak and rich, often oily texture. White Burgundy is marked by the oak and acidity. Chardonnay aged all in steel can be nice and fresh, but it doesn’t really have much distinct fruit flavors.