Frank, I’ve come to accept that people like you and Larry (who I’m happy to see has calmly showed why David was way off base out rather than resorting to his standard civility complaint – bravo Larry) have a different perspective. But precisely because I love seeing intelligent, strong-POV posts from winemakers like the ones from Jamie here, I’m going to once again jump into the fray to say that you are not only wrong but add to the problem when you post things like “winemakers can’t win around here.” It’s just not true. Jamie spurred a great conversation in this thread. Several people engaged with him respectfully; others thanked him for his contribution. One guy felt the need to be a jerk. Rather than run away, Jamie stood up for himself. And DavidZ comes away as the one looking like a petty, anti-social bully with nothing to offer here, while EVERYONE ELSE chimes in to support Jamie.
Put in your terms – winners and losers – how does Jamie not come away as the winner here? This thread makes Jamie look great and provided him a platform to engage with people from all over who might be interested in his wines in a way that he probably does not get very often. It seems like he enjoyed himself. I’m more interested in his wines for his having posted. I’ve never had a bottle of Kutch. I’m going to seek it out now. I bet others reading this thread will too. And it wasn’t hard. Jamie had lots of support. He’ll continue to get it if he continues to contribute, maintains his equanimity, and stands up for himself when appropriate. Or if Jamie doesn’t want to deal with the nonsense, he could put DavidZ on ignore. This thread makes clear that others will do the work of defending him against pointless vitriol.
On the broader point, I do get where you are coming from. One obnoxious guest can ruin Thanksgiving dinner, even if the other 10 guests are lovely people engaging in a spirit of generosity and gratitude. But you don’t have to let him, even at Thanksgiving. More importantly, it’s a lot easier to marginalize/ignore an obnoxious WB poster at little to no social cost than a guest at a dinner party.
Finally, I should say that, while I have put a few people on “ignore,” I haven’t with DavidZ. One, I have a relatively high tolerance for acerbity. Two, I actually appreciate DavidZ’s strong POV, and I think his tasting notes and opinions are often interesting, thought-provoking, and even helpful. I think he’s earned most of the opprobrium he receives. But I think it’s worth saying that, unlike the obnoxious Thanksgiving guest, the cool thing about a forum like WB is that I can learn from and appreciate even someone like DavidZ without letting him ruin my day… as long as I don’t let him. Ultimately, it’s my choice.
My own wish is that people like you could accept that there will always be jerks (or, perhaps more both more charitably and more accurately, interesting people who act like jerks) in any open forum worth having. It’s up to you to figure out how to get the most out of it without going crazy. If you can’t do that without your blood pressure going through the roof, that’s ok. But please don’t suggest that a winemaker, or anyone else, can’t have a great time here and benefit greatly from the experience simply by approaching the forum with open eyes and a little healthy perspective.