Blair,
We would love to see the offers that you are getting.
Or, maybe we should all go to your house and give you a hand…maybe you have too much old Burgundy and need some help finishing it off.
Nothing like a Burgundy thread to elicit diverging opinions of a particular producer or wine. As I mentioned, the '85 Engel Grands Echezeaux was my Burgundy epiphany. The experience was so eye opening that I sought out, bought and drank many vintages ('85, '88, '89, '90, '91, '96, '97, '98, '99, '00, '01 and '02) of his Echezeaux, Grands Echezeaux, Clos Vougeot, Brulees and Vosne Romanee. Of course, back then Engel was more widely available at reasonable prices (and so was Truchot). Aside from a few that were corked and heat damaged, I never had less than a wonderful drinking experience. In some instances, superb drinking experiences. In my opinion, Engel was a great producer. That they’re frightfully expensive now does not detract from what’s in the bottle.
Hi Mel,
I’ve never turned away a friend who appreciated good Burgundy. I buy wine to drink - not to collect. I’m certain that the Engel price runup is caused more by collectors than drinkers.
Cheers,
Blair
Blair,
You’re right - I need to amend that to high-level, classic Red Burgundy is hard to find at affordable prices, and the total quantity available is quite small compared to the global demand since the market tastes or desires have changed.
I have a lot as well, but almost all of it was purchased before the price spike. With a limited income, I found it hard to compete in 05 (the end of my large-scale burgundy buying), but tried to use my skills well and did manage to get some - but now, the top level stuff: Mugnier, Roumier, Rousseau, Leroy, DRC, Dujac, Meo-Camuzet, Ponsot, and a few others have gone up so much that I simply can’t afford them. After they went up, there was a time when another set of classic producers were still relative bargains: Engel, Mugneret-Gibourg, Truchot, Drouhin, Fourrier, Barthod - but they spiked a few years later. It’s pretty clear that many realized that the wines in the 2nd group were similar in style and quality to the first, and thus the market adjusted accordingly.
I’ve switched my interest to classic Barolo and Barbaresco producers, since I think the quality and style of wine is similar to what I used to be able to buy in Red Burg, at pre-spike prices. If Brovia, Burlotto and others were growing in the Cote de Nuits, I can’t imagine what their prices would be.
I agree - I’m not a buyer at the new prices, but I’m not a seller either - the few bottles of Engel I have I intend to keep and cherish, just like my other classics.
Cheers,
seth
Hi Seth,
Yes - we are on the same page, but for me Engel and Truchot stand out from the others in your 2nd group. For my taste, they are not as good or consistent as the others. And my view (others may differ) is that the reason they went up in price to the degree they did has more to do with the collector idea that they are not making any more wine under these domaine names…like when an artist dies and everyone scrambles to buy one of his/her pieces. To a degree, I think there are many out there who believe these could become the next Jayer. But that doesn’t hold up when you taste the wines, IMO.
(Though I still buy mostly Burgundy, I also have bought more Barolo and Barbaresco recently - Brovia and Burlotto are a couple examples of gems for very fair prices.)
Cheers,
Blair
A five years ago I had a 2002 Vosne Brulées at a resto in England (Three Gables in Bradford-on-Avon, since closed it seems). Good, but most unfortunately not stellar.
- 2002 Domaine Philippe Engel Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru Aux Brulées - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru (6/12/2012)
C: Light brownish-red
N: Delicate, pleasant, faded flowers
P: Very interesting, but slightly too acidic. Touch of VA? I liked it, but not blown away as hoped.
Posted from CellarTracker
Funny, Peter…I’ve almost never liked the Brulees from Engel. Not sure why, but it was always relatively high in alcohol, I think and inelegant. "Brulees"means “burnt” and…seeing that vineyard and its exposition makes it clear why.
Of course, to me, a ten year old wine from a terrific producer…and especially in the 2002 vintage, for some reasson, is unlikely to charm…even if aerated. That vintage, which I love and “rank” only behind maybe 2005 or 1990…was really tight until fairly recently.
Greetings Stuart. Differences in opinion are what make discussions about wine in general and Burgundy in particular so interesting. The Brulees that I enjoyed were the '88, '91, '96, '99 and '01. The aromatics were dazzling and the concentration and length admirable. In a word, they were balanced. The biggest surprise, though, was the '01, drunk two years ago. Aside from one that was corked, this displayed complexity on the nose and palate, and had good length. No doubt I opened this just at the right time, and it was a memorable
drinking experience.
While I agree that most of the price runup is because of the deaths of the winemakers I definitely don’t agree with regards to the quality of the wines. Count me as a huge Engel and Truchot fan though I also won’t be buying at current prices.
Blair,
I ve got a few bottles myself…my collection is for drinking, not gazing…with you 100 per cent
Hi Mel,
If you ever find yourself in Vancouver, B.C. let me know - love to share a few glasses of wine with you!
Cheers,
Blair
Thank you for this!!
Blair, I love BC…I am thinking of an excuse to visit right now.
And back at you for SF.
I met Philippe in the summer of '88 when Jack Rigaud conned me into taking himself, Philippe, Alain Burguet,and some others around Ca for three weeks…Philippe always reminded me of a French John belushi. I remember a formal dining party where he had me, Chris Benz and the Guillaumes (a nursery own and his wife) falling out of our chairs with laughter.
So many good times… so excuse me if I overpay for a few old bottles…at least they balance out the deals I got in the '90s.
Well, it’s the only Engel I’ve had. It was recommended by Neal Martin, via the Brit wine site [wine-pages.com IIRC], and I generally agree with his tastes. So who knows, maybe it was a bad bottle…
In almost every way, Mel…a Belushi clone. He was more shy…but otherwise liked to laugh and lived like Belushi, too, it seemed. I met him in June 1988…with his grandfather there, too…guess it was before he met you?
Interesting, to me, I met Belushi once at a Blues Brothers show in Phila…(there weren’t that many). I was talking to Ackroyd about a h.s. friend who made a movie with these guys (1941?)…When Dan called over John…Belushi was as high as kite…and seemed to be speeding. Not sure it was chemicals or the exhiliration of doing the back flips during the show, but…he was not exactly engaging, though Ackroyd was. (Unbelievably, I heard to today of a celebration of 50 years since Otis Redding went into the lake in Madison WI in his plane…I 've been listening to some Otis concerts from 1967…and he was clearly one of the models for the BBros. Amazingly, like Belushi, Otis died at 27…Belushi was…33…such a tragic outcome of talent35 and 50 years ago.
Unfortunately Philippe started to look like did John Belushi just before he died.
Not that much dope but lots of tobacco.
Gotta disagree with you here, Stuart. At age ten is when burgundies from good producers are most charming. Usually relatively open, still with young tasty fruit but not jammy and coming into balance. Age ten is usually an open window for awhile before back to sleep. Hence the “ten years on” tasting at Becky’s every year with many producers in attendance.
Oh, and Peter Weygandt was based in PA not DC and only opened the DC retail shop after Jacky retired.
I used to think that, Maureen, but…have changed my mind based on experiences with “good” vintages…and finding most asleep still…but have recently stopped trying at 10, concluding it was pointless (and not happy to conclude that, either…as it just delays things.)
Re: Peter Weygandt…I should have been more precise. He was “centered” in the DC area early on…In fact the only places I could find his wines in the '80s and '90s was at State Line in MD or in DC at Pearson’s and another place. Not in PA or NJ…or NYC that I remember.
I know his actual business was/is in PA. In 1987 or early 1988 he invited people to greet Liliane Truchot…and we went. It was in podunk, pa…Chester County horse country…I’m pretty sure that’s why I went to Pearson’s in the first place…his reco… What were the others in DC; do you remember?
Other what?
Other stores in DC which carried Weygandt wines at the same time David Shildknect? was carrying them at Pearsons? There was at least one other I went to a couple of times…at Peter’s reco, though I bought his stuff mostly at State Line in MD.