For whites, the very limited data I have indicates that Chasselas and Orange Muscat might ripen before Chardonnay, and that Pinot Gris, Flora, and Gewurztraminer might ripen at about the same time or shortly thereafter.
Muscat Blanc and Sauvignon Blanc might be a week ot two later, but before Riesling. I don’t have any data for Gruner or Albarino
For reds you’d be looking at Blauer Portugieser and Pinot Muenier to ripen at about the same time as Pinot Noir, with Gamay a week or so later. Believe it or not Tempranillo is next on the list maybe two weeks after Pinot and before Syrah.
Thanks Peter, I’ve got Pinot Gris and Gewurtz in decent amounts and they don’t gross what I need, but they’re okay. I feel Albarino is as late as Riesling, but not totally sure.
We have had great results with the grapes and awesome results from the wines. “They” told us it was to cool for SB and we budded chardonnay over to it anyway as we prefer SB and love it from cold sites. We have clone 376. It is to cold to get enough crop to break even so we will replant most of it in the next couple of years to more Pinot Noir likely Swan Clone.
Though if its to cool for SB then it perfect for Pinot Noir right?
Smart ass! Seriously though, is your SB vineyard in Boonville? Pretty big difference from B-town and our site I think. Also what about mold with all of the cool weather. I grew SB years ago @ Eaglepoint and liked doing so. We lost lots of it in '83 and '89 due to rains at harvest.
Sorry could not help myself. Yes in Boonville just behind Foursight only SB and Semillion in the Anderson Valley.
Did you go to the tech conference 2 years ago. I was on a panel with Nathan from goldeneye who had a temperature study that showed Boonville has higher highs and lower lows and that degree days in cool years were the same and in warm years was only 150 or so more. Many were shocked as the empirical data was not the same as the some of the local assumptions. We are cooler most nights and have 2-3x the frost events early and late season compared to you. It was funny that the 2 wines from Boonville were mid 13’s etoh and the 2 from your end were 14.5+. Every year Londer harvested off the estate we brought in a block of Pommard and 2A 3-5 days earlier than Pom at Ferrington, then 3-5 days later the rest of the Londer Estate dijons usually came in. Then 1-2 weeks for the swan from the Londer Estate and Roederer 23 from you then another 1-2 weeks for Gew from Ferrington.
Boy does that bring back some unpleasant memories. In 1989 I was growing SB over the hill from you, a little north of Hopland. It was all under contract to Matanzas Creek and Obester, but as I’m sure you remember the rains came early that year and just never stopped. Neither winery took the grapes and I couldn’t blame them - I’ve never seen so much mold. 24 years later I still can’t drink sauvignon blanc!
I’m with Eric - Poulsard (if its in this country).
I, and a few others I know, would be lining up to buy it.
I like trousseau but there are a lot of inexpensive ones from the Jura so CA can’t compete on price.
Best, Jim
Hey, you’re lined up behind me bud . Oh wait, you already buy from Casey…maybe I’m lined up behind you.
The value in planting the Trousseau is to be able to do a Poulsard-Trousseau-Pinot blend (as they do in the Jura). I suspect the blend will make the most interesting wine…at least until the vines have a bit of age on them.
Gideon from Clos Saron, I think it’s Gideon, is thinking about planting Poulsard. So perhaps he has a source for budwood? Hopefully.
Also, with folks from Burgundy moving into the Jura…I’m thinking that the days of cheap excellent Jura wines will soon be over. Now’s probably the time to stock up on Jura wines. Maybe I’m wrong here, but seems like it’s heading that way.
Seems like $3k at 3 tons/acre would work? It would certainly have a buzz factor behind it. At least initially, and probably longer term.
It all depends on what you’re going for, croploads, etc. but Albarino in my experience comes a bit before Riesling. It also carries smaller berries and clusters. Down here, the albarino seems to be pretty close with the Chardonnay as far as ripening goes. Around Greenfield I come off in late September at about 21.5 brix but this valley tends to be more protected from September heat spikes than the coastal mountains FWIW.
Eric,
Poulsard from Anderson Valley would probably sell in the $30-35/bottle range so $3,000-3,500/ton seems in line. I offer no opinion on what crop levels work best but can’t imagine that three tons an acre would not be workable.
There is a little Jura Poulsard for less than $30/bottle but not much. And recently, prices have risen more rapidly than many other varieties.
But I didn’t think there was any in the states - be interesting to know.
Best, Jim
Here is a link to a very interesting French website, it contains data on many different varieties:
If you scroll down to Alvarinho and click on it, you’ll see under “Phenologie” historical data on debourrement (bud break) and maturite (harvest) with respect to Chasselas. So Albarino typically breaks bud two days before Chasselas, and reaches maturity three weeks after Chasselas. By comparison Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, Gewurz, and Riesling, reach maturity 5, 10, 10, and 21 days respectively after Chasselas. It looks like Poulsard might be a good candidate for Casey as it reaches maturity at 10 days, same as Chard and Gewurz.
I’m sure these data sheets contain other useful info but its too much for my schoolboy French from 50 years ago! Also I have never been able to find out what criteria they use to determine maturity.
All this data comes from the French INRA cultivar collection at Domaine de Vassal near Montpellier. This collection is literally on a beach yards from the Mediterranean where the sandy soil prevents phylloxera. The data is compared to Chasselas as this variety is always the first to reach maturity. Here’s the link to Domaine de Vassal but it’s all in French and way beyond me.
I was able to find out that Chasselas typically reaches maturity at this site on 8/13 and all the other varieties come in over the next four weeks with Mourvedre being among the latest at 4 1/2 weeks. I did find some data on days from bud break to floraison and veraison and these seemed consistent with my data from other sites. However the days from mid-veraison to maturity seemed to be much shorter than typical, for example it took only 22 days for Pinot and 29 days for Cab. I was able to find temperature data from an airport a couple of miles from the site and found they have about 3,000 GDD thu August and that average daily temp in August is 76° so maybe this accounts for the short hang time.
I don’t know how data from this site will translate to much cooler sites, but I think it’s better than nothing and hope it helps ! !
Interesting stuff. I also wonder how it translates to different sites. We see Gewurz well ahead of Chard, and even ahead of PN up here, but this is based on limited data points.
Casey, what do you see in regard to harvest dates for Gewurz VS PN in AV?
BTW, we like our cold climate SB from Humboldt. It is one of our best sellers in the local restaurants. I run out every year. I am not sure how the numbers would work out, but it would likely make some nice wine.
Just using last year as an example, we picked GW around 9/29. We picked Pinot from 9/24 to 10/10 with the heart of Pinot around 10/4. FWIW Chard (10/11 to 10/20) was next to last and Riesling(10/20 to 10/25) closing it out.
Von Strasser on Diamond Mountain is pretty passionate about Gruner, as I recall. I see his wife’s car with a license plate that indicates interest in the same (I think it is GRUNER). He might share info if you contacted him.
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. Oh wait, you already buy from Casey…maybe I’m lined up behind you.