I agree with you that kids often reflect their parents emotions. I also agree that my wife getting upset didn’t help the situation and may have led to my daughter becoming upset. I can’t change how it went down and have already discussed how to handle this in the future if it happens. But watching a child have their private parts touched by a strange adult can elicit some pretty emotional responses.
Please see my response to Alan above as it explains a lot of my thoughts. My issue is that enough security had been performed already and this was unnecessary overkill that simply didn’t need to happen. The fact that it did happen is troubling. The fact that it was executed by a person who lacked any empathy made it worse. Again, just because this is how it currently works doesn’t make it right and the more people that stand up and say no the faster it will change. The argument of “this is how we always do it” doesn’t make it the right way to do it. I’m going to guess that these procedures have changed a dozen times or more since the inception of the TSA. Why would anyone accept this if it’s clear that it can be changed?
This incident came about a week after the NYT wrote an article about how the Port Authority (the group that runs Newark airport) is thinking of dumping TSA at Newark in favor of a private contractor. I didn’t even know this was possible, but the article said numerous major airports have already done so. This idea doesn’t gain traction if things are moving along well at security at Newark.
I was in Israel with my family this past summer. The experience with airport security was markedly better than any experience I’ve had with TSA. Granted it’s a much smaller operation, but well run and very, very professional.
It’s ironic. We don’t profile because it would violate people’s rights so instead we accept forced searches…pretty sure that violates our rights too.
To all, I’m not a lawyer so there really isn’t a need to take me to task if I’m off base from a legal standpoint. Either way, I’m right on point from a moral standpoint. We eliminate one bad thing in favor of another bad thing.
I’ve never had to watch a teenage daughter being patted down, so I can’t identify with your experience. My comments are not meant to minimize what you went through, but just some observations.
On your first point, you actually have no idea what caused them to do the pat down. You may not even know what caused them to search the bag. There was likely something seen on the body scan picture that they couldn’t identify which, possibly combined with whatever they thought they saw in the bag, caused the agents to be extra cautious. Given the bad press TSA was getting leading into the holiday weekend (and the lack of major problems across the country that weekend as anticipated), it is unlikely TSA was doing all of the extra stuff just because it’s SOP. It’s possible it was part of a work slow-down on the part of TSA to show they need more staff, but I really doubt it.
The pat downs come for all kinds of reasons. My wife sometimes gets them because of the underwire in her bra. I get them almost all the time since my hip transplant, despite emptying my pockets and being in the TSA Precheck line (and being sent through the body scanner). I travel very frequently and you just have to accept it. The pat downs are actually rougher in Europe, although that’s no consolation.
On your second point, yes, it’s a shame that it has come down to this to travel by air. Personally I think we’ve gone overboard. The reality is that the bad guys use teenagers to do their work sometimes, though. If you accept the need to be diligent as part of protecting our freedoms argument, there is no reason teenagers should not be searched the same as adults.
On your third point, be careful what you ask for. In light of recent attacks in Europe (and those since 2001), I’m very surprised there isn’t more security on trains, subways, etc. In Paris a few weeks ago armed police presence was very visible everywhere we went. Musee d’Orsay was emptied on a busy day because someone left a bag unattended and did not respond to repeated announcements to claim it (and only the Americans were complaining about having to leave). As to airports, it was after all planes that brought down the towers and on which idiots tried to light bombs (and, depending on what happened to the Egypt Air flight, are still targets).
All things considered, the pat down is relatively minor compared to other indignities of flying these days. Let it go, otherwise it will become all consuming and get you nowhere.
Mike, believe me, I’m sympathetic with your complaints. I would be frustrated as well with the hoops you had to go through. But I’ve traveled enough (and apparently so have you) to know there isn’t any recourse. They’re going to follow their procedures, no matter what you say, or whatever strange and twisted path got you to that point. The best solution is just to stay calm, and follow their instructions - nothing good can come of complaining or making a scene in any way.
Can’t really say much without getting political, but it should not be offensive to anyone to state the obvious: TSA is a massive government bureaucracy at this point, they have a lot of power, and get away with a lot of inefficiency and overall crap because of the perceived (and real) need for security. The fact that they could be doing a much better job, more efficiently, more painlessly, and more productively, is the outcome of having centralized authority given to them by congress, with no competition in the space, and little incentive to do a better job. If we had to pay $10 every time we went through security, my guess is that it would get a lot better in a hurry
Mike, I’m surprised to see all the comments above that seem more concerned with your reactions as parents than with the insensitivity of the TSA staff and the distress your daughter likely felt. 14year old girls are not the most at home in their bodies - and having a stranger touching them in public is not going to be a hohum experience for them.
Given that we know this is all theater and highly ineffective (see all the tests which successfully get explosives, etc through the line) I’m really glad you are speaking up about this and wish you good luck!
Mike
What Poppy and Alan have stated mirrors some of my own comments. I think you and your wife blew this out of proportion and it ended up getting your child upset.
Would you like the TSA to hire 14 year olds to pat your daughter down? Who else would do it but an adult, one that has been trained in the proper way to effectively do it? I’m sorry, but your comments on this make no sense.
I do agree that the TSA is a terrible form of security. They’ve hired tens of thousands of people who would most likely never get hired as a peace officer…I’ll stop there with that part. Though with that in mind, there has to be hard rules they have to follow. If not then you have major problems arise, such as improper pat downs, illegal profiling, etc. So while I hate the whole “standard operating procedure” B.S., sometimes it’s best overall even if a few people get “caught” when common sense would let them “go.” Does that make sense?
Or should we just let everyone go that objects to TSA screening so they can blow up a plane? A little hyperbole but it gets the point across.
And I’ve been patted down by TSA a few times over the years, not to mention more times than I can remember in training classes at work. I’ve also patted down probably thousands of people at work over the years. The TSA pat down is a pretty dumbed-down version of what someone would get in a jail or on the street by an officer actually looking hard for weapons.
To address Siun, who has a history here of not liking anything the Gov’t does…Yes a lot of what TSA does is smoke and mirrors. That smoke and mirrors is what also keeps people from trying to do harm to people on planes. The prospect of getting caught is the deterrent. Read this from 2014 on their stats, pretty wild when you realize they seized an average of more than 6 firearms per day…PER DAY! Look at the pics…see that one hidden inside a kids Playstation? Imagine what people would be bringing on if there was no TSA. I am no fan of TSA but they are necessary.
TSA had a busy year in 2014, screening more than 653 million passengers in 2014 (about 1.8 million per day), which is 14.8 million more passengers than last year.
2,212 firearms were discovered in carry-on bags at checkpoints across the country, averaging more than six firearms per day. Of those, 1,835 (83 percent) were loaded. Firearms were intercepted at a total of 224 airports; 19 more airports than last year.
There was a 22 percent increase in firearm discoveries from last year’s total of 1,813.
Ineffective? When was the last time a bomb was detonated on a US departing plane? When was the last time a plane was hijacked using weapons brought onboard? Intrusive yes. Inefficient, almost certainly. Ineffective, disagree.
I haven’t flown since last October and I’m already dreading flights in Sept & Dec.
The “price” of flying was too high for me even before the TSA, but they’ve ended any feeling other than pity for folks who spend time “up there” wth any frequency.
I appreciate your response. I don’t know how to parse your post to insert quotes so I’ll do my best to respond. You say that “I do agree that the TSA is a terrible form of security. They’ve hired tens of thousands of people who would most likely never get hired as a peace officer” and then assume that they dealt with my family in the proper manner. That’s a bad assumption. Even worse, it’s an indictment of the TSA.
I have no doubt that the TSA performs an important function. I do have my doubts as to how efficiently that function is performed. I also have serious doubts about the quality of the average TSA employee which leads to doubts about how well their functions are performed.
As I’ve stated multiple times and I haven’t really seen this point responded to except for the response from Jeff Bloom. My daughter had been through two boarding pass check points. Sniffed by an explosive detecting dog. Through the full body scanner that takes a virtually naked picture of her. Her bag had been through the scanner twice and thoroughly searched once. We had been told by a TSA agent that everything was okay only to be subsequently told that she needed a pat down. My issue is that the pat down was unnecessary. What exactly would it turn up that the previously mentioned security measures haven’t turned up? I mean why stop there? Why not strip search or body cavity search just to be sure?
I’m curious…don’t have time to look it up right now…how many times a pat down resulted in finding a security issue that got through the body scanner. I suspect that the vast majority of the firearms or security issues get discovered by the body and bag scanners. I understand if you refuse the scanner. I would have sooner had my daughter go through the scanner again before being patted down, but that wasn’t an option.
Again, as I’ve stated above…the argument of “standard operating procedure” doesn’t work for me. SOP has changed multiple times for the TSA. Just because it’s SOP doesn’t make it right. If the TSA isn’t constantly evaluating it’s SOPs then that’s a massive problem in itself. If people don’t stand up for what’s right, then nothing will change. Andy, just curious…are your police department’s procedures routinely evaluated? Are they changed if it’s found there is a better way to do things? I suspect they are…if not, you should be concerned.
My wife’s reaction could have been calmer and I we’ve discussed it and she will work on modifying her behavior in the future. See what I’ve done here? We are willing to look at our own standard operating procedure and evaluate it in order to make changes to do our job better.
I truly do appreciate your response and nothing in my response should be interpreted as snark. I just got a call from my US Senator’s office who is investigating this issue on my behalf and I suspect that I will get all sorts of pushback from the TSA and this just helps me to prepare for their anticipated response.
Mike, I appreciate your measured response to some of the stronger comments in this thread.
I will be traveling with my 13 year old son this summer, and the information in this thread will help us prepare for TSA eventualities.
I expect that other parents are also finding this conversation helpful.
I am glad you are getting support from the senator’s office.
The terrorists, on 9/11 won. They changed our way of life.
Since then , the world has struggled to figure out how to provide" security". Obviously, TSA hasn’t done so and neither has any other country that I know of.
Things like this are the cost. Whatever “they” TSA do/say…it’s not ours to “reason why”. Even if we think they don’t know what they’re doing. They are inept, for sure, but…
I avoid flying as much as possible.
But, that we don’t like the “operating procedures” or don’t understand them-- IF they make any sense, IMO, isn’t “mistreatment” or a personal invasion. We all need to understand that, and act accordingly. TSA is still , literally, feeling its way along, unfortunately.
I was sexually harassed by a TSA agent at SFO last year - a totally superfluous pat down I didn’t mind, having the man squeeze and rub my pecs a few times I did mind. I decided not to make a scene and risk ruining my vacation, but I wish I had taken note of his name and written after the fact.
SOPs are tough. You have to have them, but they can defy common sense and enable the wrong sort of person. Your daughter might have been harassed by normal bureaucratic operations and not by creepers but it still shouldn’t have happened. What could a 14 year old be hiding that a body scan wouldn’t detect?
I think we all agree that it would be a lot better if TSA personnel were better educated, trained, and qualified to make on the spot judgments about real risk, and decisions based on the actual situation. Given the circumstances (American family obviously traveling on vacation, harmless 14 year old girl, extremely unlikely to be a threat to blow up a plane), the experience Mike describes is frustrating indeed.
Having said that, we’re stuck with the fact that TSA is what it is, and isn’t going to change much. BTW, if I ran an airline, I would hire my own security, have my own inspection lines, do it a lot more efficiently (particularly for my own frequent travelers), and use it as a major selling point in marketing my airline.
Back to Mike: as a father as well (of a now grown college graduate daughter), I would really suggest revisiting this incident with your daughter, and using it as a learning experience. Teach her that there will be things in her life that aren’t comfortable, that may seem to encroach on her personal space, but that the road to becoming a mentally healthy adult is to not let those unpleasant experiences embed themselves into her psyche. My own daughter was a fairly emotional teenager, who went through a lot of difficulties with all sorts of personal situations. She has now grown, traveled and seen other parts of the world, and learned that the little bubble she grew up in was pretty protected, and that some of her “painful” experiences were pretty minor in the scheme of things. There will be lots of unpleasant things your daughter runs into, from bad behaving boys, unpleasant school and social situations, to police stops, international travel, etc. Being able to avoid becoming overly emotional, stay calm, and dealing with any situation in a patient, sensible way will be key to her becoming a functioning adult in a difficult world. I was traveling with my family back in August 2006 in England when they shut down all the airports due to the “liquids bombers”. My family (wife, 16 and 13 year olds at the time) was a little freaked, having to fly home, but I worked to keep them calm, and not let fear overcome their existence
I agree, Mike, but was wondering whether something triggered this extensive search. I’ve had my bag passed through twice, I’ve been patted down several times, I’ve had a dog sniff my bags, but I don’t recall having all of this done at the same time. I’m wondering whether there might have been some intelligence (I’m using this word advisedly) and your family fit the profile.
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