This is exactly as I’d describe the '11 Horseshoe I opened last week. But it did show overt nuttiness as one would expect in an older chard.
Russ - I also have every one of those Skyline pinots but have yet to open a single one. I have an '08 at home, so I’ll fix that soon enough.
Decided on the 2011 Skyline Syrah instead, and it is awesome!
Agree on Swan Terrace. I have had only one Skyline in a NY Rhys offline couple of years back. Cant remember the vintage but I do not recall candied notes during the offline.
Does it beat a good Cote Rotie? Because this is what it is priced at.
Why does it have to “beat” anything? Both could provide different experiences and enjoyment at same price. Can be “and” rather than “or”… 
It’s different from Côte Rôtie. It is also excellent on its own merits.
I will post a note separate from this thread.
I think Markus’s question is a fair one. I personally might not use the term “beat,” but the question of whether the wine is as enjoyable as a good Cotie Rotie priced the same or less (even if it has a different flavor profile) is something I’m interested in too. The lone 2010 Syrah Horseshoe I bought I enjoyed immensely.
I didn’t go very long on Rhys – I think I’ve about a case left in my cellar – and I sold off some of my 2010 and 2011 Bearwallow b/c I found it ponderous and not at all ‘burgundian’ (as I had expected.) But I’m annoyed that I have some 2009 Alpine Chard if – as this thread indicates – it is already on the downslope (when I could have opted for a Littorai Chard-- for example–at the same price point that has proven ageability).
No question that these wines have been priced as premium products from the get go – unlike most European wines which “earn” their price-point over multiple vintages as they demonstrate their ageability (or, in some cases, the lack thereof…)
Those are not botrytis flavors.
So do I enjoy the Skyline as much as a Côte Rôtie. Yes, I do. It is a completely different wine though. I do think the Rhys is more versatile. The more rustic aspects of a Côte Rôtie in the same price range restricts food pairings to a narrower band.
Buying CA wine expecting it to taste like French wine seems like a fool’s errand.
+1
Hard to disagree with that.
Whether one can buy a new production, premium priced CA wine and expect it to be as good a qpr as an established French wine (or established US wine, come to that) which has “earned” its chops/price point is what is more debatable.
This is a false equivalency imo. Everyone at the dinner is/was slanted towards drinking Northern Rhones, but, I don’t think anyone was expecting that. I don’t buy rhys at this point due to being tighter on funds than I was, but, as has been noted, I certainly don’t expect Cote-Rotie or northern Rhone when I buy a Cali Syrah. I buy examples of Syrah to be the examples that they are. Nothing more, nothing less
Note posted on the 2011 Skyline Syrah
This resonates with me. Rhys is among the least candied or sweet of the Cali Pinots that I enjoy. For example, I find the fruit more candied in Rivers Marie, Littorai, Ceritas, Kutch and Whitcraft That candied note is a positive when in check with other flavor elements and acidity. Further to Joshua’s point, the candied notes do tend to integrate with air. Definitely something I enjoy and what makes Cali Pinot distinctive from other Pinot regions, in my book.
It’s rare that I would call it candied. Sweet fruit yes, but candied has a sickly sweet connotation, as well as obvious sugar. The top California Pinots do not show that. They show ripe, sweet fruit flavors without the sugar.
Definitely not intended as a pejorative descriptor in my post above.
The Rhys single vineyard wines were originally priced at $49 and stayed there for a number of vintages. That is maybe on the higher end of the sweet spot for pricing small production California Pinot Noir and Chardonnay wines at the time they started (2004 vintage), but was certainly in the ball-park. In any case, prices for wines are only “earned” insofar as there are customers willing to buy them. By the time the prices started rising, I think most of their customers had tasted some of the wines and could make up their minds.
There are European wines that have established their reputations for quality and value over decades. Some of them have owned planted vineyards for a long time, as well. If you look at the acquisition and planting costs for the estate vineyards, I’m quite certain that after more than a decade of operations they are still quite solidly in the red. [Note added in edit] To be honest, I suspect they are at best running around break even for current year operations. There is no reason that should affect a person’s willingness to pay the prices they ask, of course, but it does shed some light on the why a winery would set those prices given there appear to be enough people willing to pay them.
-Al
Understood, but the term is so often used as a negative that I felt I should relay my thoughts.
I noted in the tasting note I posted above that it is difficult to distinguish between sweet ripe fruit and candied fruit: the “sweet” in ripe fruit is sugar, after all, although the perception of sweetness in fruit is dependent on other factors as well.
“Candied” fruit is generally a negative; it certainly appeared as a negative in Adrian’s tasting notes.