NYTimes: Asimov on SonomaCnty PinotNoir

[Mel_Knox]

Many years ago I poured California wines for a tasting for winemakers of the town of St-Romain. I explained that we bottle our wine sooner rather than later to preserve fruit whereas they leave their wine in barrel longer. One of the winemakers said, We leave the wine in barrel until the terroir shows up.

I repeated this to Aubert, as tho he was going to say, those hillbillies, what do they know. Instead he nodded in agreement and said, yes that s what we do too.

So this is their belief, not mine. On the other hand, the wines I have made with Clendenen were usually left in barrel 18 months or longer and most of them turned out quite nicely. I should point out that our Oregon wines usually had a much higher percentage of new oak than the Anderson valley ones. It all depends on the vineyard.

I guess my question would be to Tom and Larry…do you automatically dismiss wines made in 100% new oak?? We have seen lots of tasting notes on these pages for older Wms Selyem wines, some of which were 200% new. Tom has written up older Qupe wines, some of which are 50% and higher new oak.

[TomHill]

@Mel Knox

Many years ago I poured California wines for a tasting for winemakers of the town of St-Romain. I explained that we bottle our wine sooner rather than later to preserve fruit whereas they leave their wine in barrel longer. One of the winemakers said, We leave the wine in barrel until the terroir shows up.

I repeated this to Aubert, as tho he was going to say, those hillbillies, what do they know. Instead he nodded in agreement and said, yes that s what we do too.

So this is their belief, not mine. On the other hand, the wines I have made with Clendenen were usually left in barrel 18 months or longer and most of them turned out quite nicely. I should point out that our Oregon wines usually had a much higher percentage of new oak than the Anderson valley ones. It all depends on the vineyard.

I guess my question would be to Tom and Larry…do you automatically dismiss wines made in 100% new oak?? We have seen lots of tasting notes on these pages for older Wms Selyem wines, some of which were 200% new. Tom has written up older Qupe wines, some of which are 50% and higher new oak.

Nope, Mel…absolutely not do I dismiss wines made in 100% new oak. But, to me, if the oak is too strong and all I can get is the oak…but no varietal and, likely, no terroir character
in the wine, then I’m not a fan. It just indicates to me that the winemaker was in the clutches of the first sleaze-ball barrel salesman that came along!!!
Perhaps, w/ age, the terroir will eventually break thru a heavy oak treatment. Dunno…haven’t enough data points.
And, of course, we all know that the greatest calling for a wine is to display its terroir !! We do know that…don’t we??
Tom

[Mel_Knox]

Tom,

I don’t know the meaning of the word terroir. To me, it is a romantic term, helpful in selling wine. I once offered a copy of Jacky Rigaud’s book on tasting for terroir to anybody who could define the term…no takers.

Tom Hill wrote

in the wine, then I’m not a fan. It just indicates to me that the winemaker was in the clutches of the first sleaze-ball barrel salesman that came along!!!



Perhaps the winemaker should have waited for The Barrel Pimp to show up.

Clearly there are lots of reds from Bordeaux and Burgundy that were aged in 100% new oak, and developed nicely.

[TomHill]

@Mel Knox

Tom,

I don’t know the meaning of the word terroir. To me, it is a romantic term, helpful in selling wine. I once offered a copy of Jacky Rigaud’s book on tasting for terroir to anybody who could define the term…no takers.

Tom Hill wrote

in the wine, then I’m not a fan. It just indicates to me that the winemaker was in the clutches of the first sleaze-ball barrel salesman that came along!!!



Perhaps the winemaker should have waited for The Barrel Pimp to show up.

Clearly there are lots of reds from Bordeaux and Burgundy that were aged in 100% new oak, and developed nicely.

Yup, Mel. As I asserted above…“terroir is overrated”.
Jeez…I always thought “The Barrel Pimp” and “sleazeball” were one in the same!!!
Tom

[larry_schaffer]

@Mel Knox

Many years ago I poured California wines for a tasting for winemakers of the town of St-Romain. I explained that we bottle our wine sooner rather than later to preserve fruit whereas they leave their wine in barrel longer. One of the winemakers said, We leave the wine in barrel until the terroir shows up.

I repeated this to Aubert, as tho he was going to say, those hillbillies, what do they know. Instead he nodded in agreement and said, yes that s what we do too.

So this is their belief, not mine. On the other hand, the wines I have made with Clendenen were usually left in barrel 18 months or longer and most of them turned out quite nicely. I should point out that our Oregon wines usually had a much higher percentage of new oak than the Anderson valley ones. It all depends on the vineyard.

I guess my question would be to Tom and Larry…do you automatically dismiss wines made in 100% new oak?? We have seen lots of tasting notes on these pages for older Wms Selyem wines, some of which were 200% new. Tom has written up older Qupe wines, some of which are 50% and higher new oak.

Mel,

You and I both know that the rallying call for most winemakers is that a wine is never over-oaked - it must be ‘under-fruited’ instead

I for one don’t automatically dismiss these wines - heck, I’m sure there have been plenty of wines that I’ve enjoyed that have been aged in 100% new oak or at least 50% new oak. When I worked at another winery, we used a ton of new oak - and I understand why some find it appealing . . . I do.

But just like anything else in wine, too much is too much - and that will vary depending upon variety, vineyard, vintage, etc. A wine that is aged in 100% new oak one year may not show as ‘oaky’ as the same wine the following year done the same way - tis the beauty and magic of what we do.

That said, unless one has a chance to try the same wine in new oak versus older oak over time, there is no way to show that one ‘shows better’ than the other.

Cheers.

[Mel_Knox]

I coined the expression ‘no such thing as over-oaked wines, just under-wined oaks’ about thirty years ago at the IPNC and perhaps I have lived to regret it, except when it gets a good laugh.

The reality there is
1/good oak and bad oak…wineries like DRC and ABC use wood air dried three years
2/good vineyards, bad ones and the great
3/good winemakers and people who don’t know what they are doing…look at the difference btwn pre Alain Vaultier Ausone and now, or pre Team Pontalier Chateau Margaux and now

The good winemakers figure out how to make the right wine in the right barrel the right way.

Tom, I was the Sleazy Barrel Pimp…now I am the Retired Sleazy Barrel Pimp…but now working more than ever…just not getting paid as much!