Myriad Syrah

[Brian_Tuite]

In the big picture Mike makes 70+ wines but only Myriad is his. That’s 10 wines if I count correctly. He needs to protect himself.

[ncostanzo1]

@Bruce Rudman

This discussion is so off base. Myriad is a small operation run by a husband and wife. Good people. great wine. They make about 1,500 cases of wine. No matter how you cut it, there is not a hell of a lot of profit in that. When they ship for flat rate shipping at $x a bottle part of the cost is subsidized. At six bottles the cost probably comes closer to the actual shipping/fulfillment cost, at a case they probably break even, and for three bottles they probably lose money on the overall order. It is probably smart business to have the minimum rather than tell you your three-pack will cost $10/btl to ship. That would start another thread. And that is not to say their juice would not be worth the surcharge with the higher shipping.

The point is that bashing a small business model is just stupid. If they made 200,000 cases, no one on this board would be talking positive of them (case in point, Caymus). And I think even Carlisle is at 20,000 cases which make a difference in economies of scale. - look it up if you don’t know the term. Buy six, shut up, Or, perhaps call Leah and offer to pay the higher shipping cost. But the naysayers would never think of such a preposterous thing. Not saying that they’d go for it but to bash their business model because your YEARLY allocation of wine must be at least six bottles is nuts.

I don’t feel like anyone is bashing the small business model of any winery here, Myriad included. Feels more just a like spirited discussion IMO. Appreciate those who’ve stated roughly “We don’t know what there books look like”. I’m new to Myriad wines, but knowing that I have a 6 bottle min purchase gives me some pause unfortunately. Not everyone on WB is playing with deep pockets of their own or picking out of others cellars just to keep things in perspective, some of us are just trying to have a taste of something the upper crust only enjoys (I will have some whine with my french cries, yes thank you). If the producer is not trying to bury the customer with the burden of shipping costs, thanks, but I am sure they find the profit in other ways. I think the cost of business continues to go up, so as a customer I expected with some regularity that prices for quality small production wines will go up in time. As a Sonoma County resident I can do pick ups so I get to skip out on a lot of shipping charges, sorry forgot that disclaimer.

[ncostanzo1]

@Greg Smith

This thread has really drifted. Started out (I thought) as more of a commentary on buyers feelings on the increase in minimum orders (not just with Myriad but everyone) and then went crazy. Since this thread is titled Myriad Syrah, if anyone has not had this before it is great juice at a good price from good people. If Mike had to raise the minimum just to maintain profitability, that’s a good enough answer for me. As a buyer, I would always prefer no minimum but will continue to buy their wines…especially their Myriad and Quivet Cabs.

Apologies if I heaped in on the drifting, I do look forward to trying his wines someday soon. Thanks for the notes/information.

[Phill.WC]

@Bruce Rudman

I’m confused, Phil. My comments were based upon your rant against small business. You seemed to fault Myriad for their policy in prior posts.

They make great Syrah. Let’s leave it at that.

Not ranting against Myriad at all or small business. I’m a small business owner. I was simply expressing my point of view that a business (small, medium or large) should price well so that pricing is transparent and their model does not rely on spreading their margin across items not core to their business (shipping, etc). Myriad makes fine wine, it’s clear from this discussion their fans (myself included) would gladly pay a bit more in premium. A healthier bottom line for Myriad gives them air cover in leaner years.

[Brian_Tuite]

@ncostanzo1

I do look forward to trying his wines someday soon. Thanks for the notes/information.

Nick, look me up sometime. I’d be happy to pop a Myriad or two with you.

[Bud_Carey]

For those thinking that 6 syrahs is too many, get a couple of the Semillon instead. They are excellent, and only $25!!!

[Phill.WC]

@Brian Tuite

@Phill.WC

@Mstanford

How would you price the '13 if you were making the call? Ye businessmen out there…

Not knowing Myriad’s all in-costs I don’t know and to be truthful, I don’t know what Myriad is pricing per bottle on this release. If it’s anything like Carlisle I think they could do well at a higher price point. If you’re making a good product, price well. I think those of us who appreciate well-crafted wine would pay the premium.

Mike’s pricing philosophy is to avoid alienating good customers with unnecessary price increases. This is how he makes his living and every decision he makes that affects his customer’s brand perception/purchasing habits/loyalty is calculated. What’s better, sitting on 400 cases of wine that many people are priced out of or selling through? Unsold product costs more than it ultimately makes.

The trending theme here has been that a price increase would not alienate good customers. I believe that Mike’s customers have a great appreciation for well made wine. They’re no Kendall Jackson customers! I don’t think Myriad, Carlisle would have any problems moving 400 cases if priced at 10-15% more for bottle. We’re debating pricing optics here and I think we live in a world where consumers develop affinity towards brands that are authentic and transparent.

[Brian_Tuite]

@Phill.WC

@Brian Tuite

@Phill.WC

Not knowing Myriad’s all in-costs I don’t know and to be truthful, I don’t know what Myriad is pricing per bottle on this release. If it’s anything like Carlisle I think they could do well at a higher price point. If you’re making a good product, price well. I think those of us who appreciate well-crafted wine would pay the premium.

Mike’s pricing philosophy is to avoid alienating good customers with unnecessary price increases. This is how he makes his living and every decision he makes that affects his customer’s brand perception/purchasing habits/loyalty is calculated. What’s better, sitting on 400 cases of wine that many people are priced out of or selling through? Unsold product costs more than it ultimately makes.

The trending theme here has been that a price increase would not alienate good customers. I believe that Mike’s customers have a great appreciation for well made wine. They’re no Kendall Jackson customers! I don’t think Myriad, Carlisle would have any problems moving 400 cases if priced at 10-15% more for bottle. We’re debating pricing optics here and I think we live in a world where consumers develop affinity towards brands that are authentic and transparent.

What if it said vintage 2011 on the label? That year didn’t quite fly off the proverbial shelf. Depends on your financial position. I love Mike’s (both Smith and Officer) wines but I can only afford so many. I’ve had to pass on the last two Carlisle offers. I guess I don’t feel as entitled as some others on this forum. Any more price increases and I just may have to become a KJ customer. So please speak for yourself when it comes to pricing comfort levels.

[Scott_E_Wade]

@Bud Carey

For those thinking that 6 syrahs is too many, get a couple of the Semillon instead. They are excellent, and only $25!!!

I’m not even much of a white wine drinker and this is true.

Mike is a talent. He is talented taster too. After tasting his lineup, we started talking Burgs (gasp!) and that was what he was buying himself that day. He knows his stuff.

You won’t meet a nicer guy either.

That said, I hope we don’t have to buy six on Dr. Crane day. Three I will do. Six at $100+ and I’m out.

[Phill.WC]

@Brian Tuite

What if it said vintage 2011 on the label? That year didn’t quite fly off the proverbial shelf. Depends on your financial position. I love Mike’s (both Smith and Officer) wines but I can only afford so many. I’ve had to pass on the last two Carlisle offers. I guess I don’t feel as entitled as some others on this forum. Any more price increases and I just may have to become a KJ customer. So please speak for yourself when it comes to pricing comfort levels.

So what you’re saying is Myriad’s 2011 bottles would only sell-through if bundled as six packs? Ok, by my approach let’s assume 10-15% extra margin for 2010. Don’t you think that extra flow might have helped offset downtick in 2011? If you can only afford so many, isn’t it better to pay a fair price for what you can afford vs.having only the option to take a bundle? $39 vs. $44-$45 for a well made Myriad, you don’t think that’s fair?

[Brian_Tuite]

@Phill.WC

@Brian Tuite

What if it said vintage 2011 on the label? That year didn’t quite fly off the proverbial shelf. Depends on your financial position. I love Mike’s (both Smith and Officer) wines but I can only afford so many. I’ve had to pass on the last two Carlisle offers. I guess I don’t feel as entitled as some others on this forum. Any more price increases and I just may have to become a KJ customer. So please speak for yourself when it comes to pricing comfort levels.

So what you’re saying is Myriad’s 2011 bottles would only sell-through if bundled as six packs?

Uh, no I didn’t sat that at all. I was responding to your assumption that the wine could sell through despite a 15% price increase by saying an off vintage itself would have an affect on sales. Couple that with a price increase and wine sits in storage.

Ok, by my approach let’s assume 10-15% extra margin for 2010. Don’t you think that extra flow might have helped offset downtick in 2011?

If there was 15% more profit maybe that might help but I’m not sure where you are finding this 15% increase. Personally I raise prices to offset the increase in cost of goods but my margin stays consistent.

If you can only afford so many, isn’t it better to pay a fair price for what you can afford vs.having only the option to take a bundle? $39 vs. $44-$45 for a well made Myriad, you don’t think that’s fair?

Fair to whom? If the winery loses money on a 3 pack sale then the price is not fair to them. I just have to budget properly and make hard choices about whose wine I can buy at any particular time. The wineries make choices bases on their individual business needs. The are a lot of wineries who require me to spend more money than I am comfortable with based on the return I perceive from my investment. I pass on their wines.
I want more of Mike’s wines than I can afford. I guess I’ll just have to find a way to make more money or be happy with what I can afford. His job is to make money and stay liquid, not make it easy for me to purchase his product.

As wine buyers we get too used to free tastings, free pick-up parties with free flowing wine and food. Then we expect free shipping and pricing that fits our budgets and complain when we don’t get our way. Sounds kind of selfish don’t you think?

[Phill.WC]

@Brian Tuite

@Phill.WC

@Brian Tuite

Fair to whom? If the winery loses money on a 3 pack sale then the price is not fair to them.

A winery should be making money on each and every bottle of wine they sell. Shipping costs should be paid by buyer so assuming the winery has COGS built in with along with a healthy profit the wine maker should be making money on each and every bottle sold. My math is based on the winemaker adding a more healthy and sustainable margin. Bottom line, I think wine makers need to know their customer inside/out. They should not try and be everything to everyone. Make a good wine, find your audience and price well (not gouge, but healthy) and then deliver great service, stay engaged and it will grow the business.

[Joe_S]

@Phill.WC

@Mstanford

How would you price the '13 if you were making the call? Ye businessmen out there…

Not knowing Myriad’s all in-costs I don’t know and to be truthful, I don’t know what Myriad is pricing per bottle on this release. If it’s anything like Carlisle I think they could do well at a higher price point. If you’re making a good product, price well. I think those of us who appreciate well-crafted wine would pay the premium.

Damn Capitalists!

(You can drink at my house anyday, Phil!).

[mattbillet]

I think all of this second guessing is really missing the point. Mike is an extremely sensitive and thoughtful guy! He is smart, he makes really good wines that are at price points that make them range from affordable to a steal compared to other wineries out there. He is an incredibly accommodating person who goes out of his way to treat the people who buy wine from him with respect and decency. My wife and I visited him last year really based on all of the wonderful reviews I had seen shared on this board. The visit was remarkably simply, he was quite direct and sharing, he even gave us partial bottles to take with us for later. I am from MA and he managed to get us wine. Every time I have a question or a thought to share about his wines, my emails are answered fairly quickly and as if we have been friends for years. This is a genuine individual making terrific wines. That is exactly why I am passionate about these small wineries that are devoted to excellence. I bought six bottles. I will buy six or more bottles from every offering he sends me. Then again, it really makes almost no sense from a cost of shipping perspective for me to buy less than 6 bottles and have them shipped to MA. I routinely get nailed for $30+ for a six pack, and $50-60 for a case. And, if I was close enough to order 3 bottles at a time, I would simply go visit him twice a year and have him hang onto my orders. But, the plane or car ride is really a bummer when you are on the far coast! It isn’t difficult to figure that three bottle orders really complicate shipping and cost factors. I think three bottle shipping is more a product of tolerance for getting people in a winery tasting room to sign up for their club. But, my opinion is always influenced by the fact I have to pay a lot for shipping.

[M_Nguyen]

First time buying Mike’s Syrahs. I went in on a six pack (two each of the Las Madres and two of the McGah). I previously went in on the Becklyn Cab last year and was a late purchase on the Myriad Three Twins thanks to the recommendations on this board.

Thanks guys!

[ncostanzo1]

@Brian Tuite

@ncostanzo1

I do look forward to trying his wines someday soon. Thanks for the notes/information.

Nick, look me up sometime. I’d be happy to pop a Myriad or two with you.

Sounds great Brian, we’ll definitely have to do a bottle share!

[Larry_Chmel]

How do these waiting lists work? If you decline an offer, are you then taken off the list or will you continue to get offers forever?
Thanks

[Brian_Tuite]

@LCHammer

How do these waiting lists work? If you decline an offer, are you then taken off the list or will you continue to get offers forever?
Thanks

Mosts lists will reach out to you if you have not purchased in two successive offers and ask if you want to remain, especially if they have a waitlist. In the case of Myraid there is not a waitlist. You sign up and get offered wine on the second wave of the offer. If you buy you are included in the first wave of the next offer. If you want to stop getting offers from wineries just send them an email and they will remove you from the mailing list.

[Mike_Grammer]

@Scott E. Wade

Mike is a talent. He is talented taster too. After tasting his lineup, we started talking Burgs (gasp!) and that was what he was buying himself that day. He knows his stuff.

You won’t meet a nicer guy either.

True words. And he’s been that way since I first met him making his first barrel of Syrah while apprenticing with Jeff Ames at Nicholson Ranch. Mike and Leah have always made time for me on any of my trips out there and are good people.

I’d be glad to order—if I could get it into Canada easily. Unfortunately, the delays and jump in cost caused by the applicable taxes really put a dent in that for me.

That said, I hope to get to a point where I can buy a bit more of the fine Myriad product. Myriad is one of about 5 lists that I stay on.

Mike

[Scott_E1]

@Brian Tuite

@Scott E.

I can live with the 3-pack minimum, but I think the 6-pack minimum is out of line. If the winery were to offer all of their wine in one shot, no big deal since you could add various Cabs to easily make the 6 bottle minimum. However, I buy a limited number of bottles of Syrah and like to spread my dollars out over several wineries in California and Washington and sometimes a few French bottles. If the wine is good, it is going to sell out - I don’t see the need to force someone like me to load up on something they don’t want. I imagine this will result in dropping off the Syrah list.

I just noticed that Myriad has split up their cab releases too, so the 6 bottle minimum will probably apply to the Dr. Crane and the Reserve. Wow - that will be an expensive purchase that I’m not sure I’m prepared to deal with. I haven’t bitched about getting stuck with six bottles of Schrader though; however, two of those six are the LPV bottling which hasn’t gotten the scores the other wines have so far. Myriad probably won’t have any problems replacing my spot on the list.

It’s a matter of dollars and cents. The fulfillment cost for a 3 pack of wine home delivered to most of the country is about $30. The cost of a 6 pack is like $38. When the winery offers free shipping we all cheer. Now, take that 3pack at $30 and make it 3 $25 bottles of white wine. The winery is not making money on that sale.

So what do they do?
• Offer free shipping because we all know they make boatloads of money making wine?
• Raise prices to subsidize shipping costs? How much? $8, $10 a bottle. Would you still buy?
• Charge full boat for shipping? Every year a new thread starts about exorbitant shipping costs. Fulfillment isn’t cheap.
• Partially subsidize shipping and raise the minimum order to offset the overall shipping costs?

What would you be comfortable with? Every change a business makes that affects end user costs usually means a few people may stop purchasing. What is an acceptable number of losses vs the cost of making no changes? I hate losing any customers but at the same time I would rather lose a few than lose money selling to them. It IS a business.

I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts. We could always move the discussion to its own thread.

I would rather have the choice to pay the actual shipping cost for the 3-pack than have to purchase the 6-pack. Why can’t they just increase the shipping costs for the 3-pack option? I know I’m in the minority here after reading the thread about how many bottles per year you purchase, but I’m sure there are at least a few out there that are a little more focused when purchasing wine and that like to spread things out a little, like I do.

This has nothing to do with support or non-support of any winery or winery owners. I am a customer. I like options. I would prefer to continue buying their Syrah. Wouldn’t most wineries want to spread their product amongst many customers as opposed to fewer to gain recognition and increase customer base? I wonder how many folks will be purchasing the minimum 6-pack of $110+ cabs?