Lettie Teague on "Good" versus "Great" Wine with some WB Board Members

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Todd F r e n c h

I think in a group setting almost ALL wines should be served blind at first, so there is no pre-judgment like this. Assumably, each person brings a wine that TRULY is good, though, at least to their own preferences.

You are assuming that most folks have decent enough palate which is not true. It may be painful and you can call me a-hole but it is not often that I find the serious wine drinkers with very good palate. I am not referring to any kind of personal preference but being able to detect the basic quality. This also is true amongst ‘only memorable wine’ drinking crowd.

I know Wilfred well and met Scott and the article makes them sound elitist, imo and this is not true.

BTW, I think Huet s are great wines. I had a few Muscadet sur Lie that I thought was very memorable.

[Keith_Levenberg]

Huet does not make muscadet. Different region, different grape.

[Loren_Sonkin]

@Jim Clary

Insufferable wine snot here. As usual, this board never lets a lack of factual knowledge get in the way of their opinions. The Leroy was opened to drink, and found to be tired and over the hill. We decided that it would be a good wine with the risotto since it wasn’t very enjoyable to drink.

It is unfortunate that the article was written in the manner that it was, because it conveys a far different story than the actual evening. We picked wines that we all liked a great deal, and we took our time and enjoyed them and compared the wines to the others that were open. While your mileage may vary as to style/blind versus non-blind/actual wines themselves, etc., I fail to understand why every one of these types of posts turns into a bashing exercise.

Jim, I don’t think most people posting (or reading) found offense at the bottles consumed. Rather, it was the conveyed notion that defined greatness with a price/popularity tag. Or at least, that was my issue. The way it reads, and I will certianly defer to those preseent, is that only those pedigreed bottles can be considered great. With that notion I disagree. I guess the thing that bothered me the most is the Lettie seemed to take the position that she had some bottles she really liked but now realizes that they were not great apparently, at least in part, because of their price tag. I am confident that you know that is not true as I know you drink the bottles that you enjoy regardless of the price tag.

[Loren_Sonkin]

@Keith Levenberg

Huet does not make muscadet. Different region, different grape.

True, but when I think of $15 wines that are great, Papin and Peppierre come to mind.

[Otto_Dobre]

A rather amateurish article regarding good v great wines…or maybe I should switch to Smirnoff

However, the Chris Freeman bit–priceless

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Serge Birbrair

Brian, I think we are reading ONE side of the story in the published story and the writer’s perception…

Scott either DID or DID NOT turn-away both of Ms. Teague’s “embarrasing” offerings. Scott either DID or DID NOT turn them away because he “didn’t want her to embarrass herself." Scott either DID or DID NOT tell people to bring bottles that they like to drink; Ms. Teague either DOES or DOES NOT like to drink Huet and Usseglio’s reg. cuvee (I can only assume that those bottles were brought by Ms. Teague in good faith – nothing in the article or here seems to indicate anything to the contrary). I don’t doubt that everyone in attendance is a great person; of those with whom I have become familiar on the wine boards, that was certainly my opinion before reading the article, and is still my opinion now. I do, however, think there were some questionable displays of judgment (which have nothing to do with the wines that were served, btw). This article is incredibly unflattering to those in attendance, and part of me takes issue with Ms. Teague for writing such an article about her “good friend” and his friends. That said, I assume everyone in attendance knew why Ms. Teague was there, and what she was writing about; given that context, I am somewhat taken aback at some of what Ms. Teague says occurred at that dinner.

[Rick_Gregory]

@Ray.Tuppatsch

Jim,

Don’t worry - you’ll get used to it after a while.

@Jim Clary

I fail to understand why every one of these types of posts turns into a bashing exercise.

Because the article makes the evening sound pretentious and snotty and it’s written in a snobby, great wines = expensive, look at us fashion. Got a problem with that? Go talk to Lettie about that one - she wrote it. All we can do is comment on what we read.

“Nobody is allowed to bring their wives, if one can’t afford $1500 a night escort one should stay home.”
Serge, quit slumming…

[Rick_Gregory]

@Kevin Shin

@Todd F r e n c h

I think in a group setting almost ALL wines should be served blind at first, so there is no pre-judgment like this. Assumably, each person brings a wine that TRULY is good, though, at least to their own preferences.

You are assuming that most folks have decent enough palate which is not true. It may be painful and you can call me a-hole but it is not often that I find the serious wine drinkers with very good palate. I am not referring to any kind of personal preference but being able to detect the basic quality. This also is true amongst ‘only memorable wine’ drinking crowd.

I know Wilfred well and met Scott and the article makes them sound elitist, imo and this is not true.

BTW, I think Huet s are great wines. I had a few Muscadet sur Lie that I thought was very memorable.

I know quite a few people who have perfectly fine palates. You need to associate with a better class of wine geek.

[Otto_Dobre]

I am surprised at the lack of comments on the F&W website

[WvanGorp]

If a YouTube video could be seen of the evening in question, a different sense would come across to you guys, as both Jim and Chris say.

Sometimes writers (and I freelance writing on wine occasionally after my day job) portray things in a certain way to create caricatures in order to convey a certain point of view. My comment, for example, “This wine is nice” about the Huet could have 100 different intentions, depending on the tone of voice, etc. (In terms of tenor, I said, “This wine is NICE!”)

I don’t think Lettie’s intent was to make any of us come across badly, but I think to make a point, some events are distilled and not portrayed “in real time.” Truly, the tenor of the evening was very enjoyable and I look forward to other visits by Lettie and any other WB board members who’d like to come to Chicago for a dinner. I think you’ll see we’re a very friendly, welcoming bunch, and not snobs as may have come across at first in the article.

[Udo_Hoerhold]

I don’t think this is being looked at in the context of how this event came about. Ms. Teague had a conversation with Mr. Manlin about great wines. Mr. Manlin decided to host an event showcasing “great wines”.

If you are hosting an event, and your event is designed to showcase “great wines”, and someone shows up with a bottle that’s good but not a “great wine”, you have the right, IMO, to tell them “this is a nice wine, but we’re not going to open it tonight, it wouldn’t fit in”.

Some of the lines quoted in the article did come off a little snobbish. I don’t know if they were really meant that way, or if they came off differently out of context. The bottom line, though, is if you bring something to an event, and it doesn’t “fit in” with that event, for whatever reason, don’t be surprised if it doesn’t get opened.

[M_A_T_T_H_A_R_T_L_E_Y]

@WvanGorp

If a YouTube video could be seen of the evening in question, a different sense would come across to you guys, as both Jim and Chris say.

Sometimes writers (and I freelance writing on wine occasionally after my day job) portray things in a certain way to create caricatures in order to convey a certain point of view. My comment, for example, “This wine is nice” about the Huet could have 100 different intentions, depending on the tone of voice, etc. (In terms of tenor, I said, “This wine is NICE!”)

I don’t think Lettie’s intent was to make any of us come across badly, but I think to make a point, some events are distilled and not portrayed “in real time.” Truly, the tenor of the evening was very enjoyable and I look forward to other visits by Lettie and any other WB board members who’d like to come to Chicago for a dinner. I think you’ll see we’re a very friendly, welcoming bunch, and not snobs as may have come across at first in the article.

What was the $15 Spanish Wine? I want to know!

[Veronica_Castro]

Lots of issues I have with the story. That article was written and edited with a definite point of view. As great an evening they had, it seems soured. I feel badly for Manlin, as it does not portray him in a good light, and his intent (plus everyone else at that dinner) was just to help. As a reader, I feel cheated to not get TNs of the wines they had that night. The writer (in all fairness) should add a postscript informing readers about the condition of the Chassagne Montrachet. Also, the side link, “Good Wines, Great Values,” helps polarize the story even more. Ugh.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Udo Hoerhold

I don’t think this is being looked at in the context of how this event came about. Ms. Teague had a conversation with Mr. Manlin about great wines. Mr. Manlin decided to host an event showcasing “great wines”.

If you are hosting an event, and your event is designed to showcase “great wines”, and someone shows up with a bottle that’s good but not a “great wine”, you have the right, IMO, to tell them “this is a nice wine, but we’re not going to open it tonight, it wouldn’t fit in”.

…

Just because one has the right to do something doesn’t mean that it’s right to do it. Of course Scott had the right to not open bottles brought, but the whole line about “don’t want you to embarrass yourself” is extremely off-putting. It’s likely that him saying that to her embarrassed her more than any embarrassment that she might have felt if her bottles were opened. Chris’ FL wine was opened, and “well-received” by those in attendance; without knowing exactly what wine that was I can only assume that the wines Ms. Teague offered [presumably] in good faith were of comparable quality. Would Scott have turned-away Chris’ Cameron Hughes bottle had Chris brought it the meal? – I don’t know. Just something to think about.

[Rick_Gregory]

@Udo Hoerhold

I don’t think this is being looked at in the context of how this event came about. Ms. Teague had a conversation with Mr. Manlin about great wines. Mr. Manlin decided to host an event showcasing “great wines”.

If you are hosting an event, and your event is designed to showcase “great wines”, and someone shows up with a bottle that’s good but not a “great wine”, you have the right, IMO, to tell them “this is a nice wine, but we’re not going to open it tonight, it wouldn’t fit in”.

Define ‘great’. The article seems to define great as expensive wine with the socially right label. That’s utter BS. If you want to ask "is there a difference between good and great wines - is it the label or is it something about the wines - that would have been interesting and fun. The way it was written Teague sounds silly.

Some of the lines quoted in the article did come off a little snobbish. I don’t know if they were really meant that way, or if they came off differently out of context. The bottom line, though, is if you bring something to an event, and it doesn’t “fit in” with that event, for whatever reason, don’t be surprised if it doesn’t get opened.

1. Teague’s a professional writer. Unless the editor reworked to story, your first point falls flat - if the words don’t express what the writer wants to express, rewrite. 2) If you are organizing an event and want specific things (first growths, DRC, etc) only, don’t give people open ended directions.

Wilfred - I think most of the issues we have here are with the article and Teague’s tone in it rather than with the people. I’m just not sympathetic to the ‘if you’d been there’ line because we weren’t… Teague either is incompetent as a writer (she’s not) or decided going in to slant this a certain way.

[M_M_c_C_a_l_l]

@B Stucker

@Todd F r e n c h

I read it, and enjoyed it. Chris Freeman, in particular.

Yes. Never has a description been more apt than " Chris, the amateur".

As opposed to those of you who are paid to drink wine?

[Claude_Kolm]

@WvanGorp

If a YouTube video could be seen of the evening in question, a different sense would come across to you guys, as both Jim and Chris say.

Sometimes writers (and I freelance writing on wine occasionally after my day job) portray things in a certain way to create caricatures in order to convey a certain point of view. My comment, for example, “This wine is nice” about the Huet could have 100 different intentions, depending on the tone of voice, etc. (In terms of tenor, I said, “This wine is NICE!”)

I don’t think Lettie’s intent was to make any of us come across badly, but I think to make a point, some events are distilled and not portrayed “in real time.” Truly, the tenor of the evening was very enjoyable and I look forward to other visits by Lettie and any other WB board members who’d like to come to Chicago for a dinner. I think you’ll see we’re a very friendly, welcoming bunch, and not snobs as may have come across at first in the article.

You make good points, Wilf, but if that’s what she was doing, then she should have used fictional names. (Even if it’s not what she was doing, it would have been better practice to use fictional names.)

[Ken_V]

@Serge Birbrair

Me and my friends use only Crystal from special edition bottles and this is the highest respect we can pay to risotto.

Good choice. Much better for your waistline than wine!

[Dan_Hammer]

Nice to read Letties article. I miss her.

I also missed her writing about The Collector.

P.S. to Scott, Janice and I will be in Chicago in May.

[Ken_V]

@Rick Gregory

“Nobody is allowed to bring their wives, if one can’t afford $1500 a night escort one should stay home.”
Serge, quit slumming…

Thank you, Gov. Spitzer!