Learning what TCA tastes like.

WINE TALK
41

[cry.gif] Bummer

42

Email sent to the winery. I am sure they will take care of me.

43

^^ This.

i have had many TCA infected bottles - sometimes, if you get past the smell, they taste fruity (but the nose gets you). Other times the TCA is barely noticable on the nose, but the wine tastes like absolutely nothing - no fruit, little character, and you are like wtf?

44

For that reason I keep always 1-2 corked (and recorked) bottles in the cellar - to demonstrate if somebody doesn´t know what it smells like …

Yes, it´s about the typical “wet cardboard” smell, but often I get suspicious first on the palate (when it´s a low level TCA-issue): the wine is (too) dry, short and bitter on the finish, often with a “moldy” hint …, the fruit is muted … not expressive, narrow …

Usually the typical smell becomes stronger with air and time … I often put a paper serviette on top of the glassware, wait a few minutes and smell again …the off-smell should be stronger…
(if it´s diminishing, it´s no TCA but something else that blows away …)

45

Be sure and post it here for the online study:

46

It is a smell thing, but you also smell stuff when it is in your mouth (retronasally), so it tastes disgusting too. Most people say they detect it best on the nose (orthonasally), but for low levels of taint I find it easier in the mouth.

How to experience it? Going into a friendly wine shop or restaurant and asking for returned bottles, as suggested above, is a good idea.

I mainly learned by drinking with other wine lovers. The first few examples were a bit confusing for me, but it did not take long to latch onto the aroma. It helps a lot when you get your first BADLY corked bottle - you won’t forget the smell after that.

You can also get the “Le Nez du Vin - 12 aroma wine fault kit”, for a sample of TCA. I found the box stank of TCA, but the sample itself seemed like a relatively mild case of corkiness. There my be other kits available.

47

[whistle.gif] Sorry, but you didn't buy that corked bottle from us! - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

48

So I have learned that I am somewhat sensitive to TCA and it’s frustrating.

There are absolutely degrees of TCA, a wine is not simply “corked” or not with regards to a wine being enjoyable. I have poured corked wine at tasting parties and told people it’s a bad bottle and they absolutely love it. The TCA was very subtle (only on the nose) but the body of the wine was great. The misses who also has a pretty good palate for being young can’t detect at the treshhold that I can and I wish it were that way for me. Each person’s threshold is different and I’m sure some wine we drink has TCA but it’s just not detectable.

It’s very easy to return a bottle that’s corked for the most part. Take it back to where you purchased it and there should not be any issue. Even if the wine is days old, a knowledgeable person can still easily detect TCA even if a wine is highly oxidized. I encourage you to take back corked wine. It can get a little awkward when the waiter at the restaurant thinks you’re screwing with him and you argue with him for two minutes about how the $100 bottle IS in fact bad and no I will not drink it. But most industry folks are at least aware of what TCA is and will accommodate.

It does baffle me how many distributors pour corked wine. I think I had to point that out to three distributors this past fall. They give you a funny look because the bottle is almost empty and no one’s said anything but after they then go confirm with someone else…sure enough. Also don’t be bashful about pointing it out to a winery/distributor. They don’t WANT to pour corked wine. At least most don’t, they should want the wine showing great and at it’s best.

In my experience, as others have mentioned, there’s not a “taste” with TCA, but actually often a lack of taste. The TCA can hide and mute fruit and make the wine seem dull.

49

The whole ‘when you will encounter it, you will know’ thing is suspect - because it is impossible to ‘explain’ a smell to someone and have them pick it up ‘in theory’.

I cannot tell you the number of times I have experienced a corked wine and used it as a learning tool - only to be faced with customers who said stuff like ‘that’s not corked, it’s musty’ or ‘I get earthy’.

My hope is that there is more education done about TCA with customers, but I gotta say that I think our industry has gone way backwards over the past decade at least, and that there is not a push to educate. Why should there be when wineries can still ‘get away’ with selling corked wines and people don’t know?!?!? [soap.gif] [stirthepothal.gif]

Cheers.

50

And herein lies the problem - the term ‘dead’ is so subjective that one wine person, who is not happy with the way a wine is showing, might call it ‘dead’ whereas a consumer who is happy will not - and in some ways, they are both correct.

I agree with you - and have done cork trials where it was obvious because we were analyzing 100 of the same wine at a time, but it is not that apparent to most consumers, especially if they have not had this particular wine a couple of times to know what it ‘should’ taste like.

Cheers

51

And here I was thinking my advice was existential, not theoretical.

52

When you get a really bad one it can ruin you for the rest of a tasting. Everything will seem corked.

As a winemaker it triggers an alarm for me as it can be so devastating for a facility. Look at Zellerbach/Hanzell as an example. I get that fear look in my eye whenever I encounter it.

53

This, more than anything, is how I can tell between TCA and brett. The flavor of the wine is just totally shot.

54

Its interesting that so many people here state that it principally a smell. I can taste it. I’m moderately sensitive to the smell, but i often have to taste to confirm.

55

Yeah I’d smelled and tasted it before but was never sure that’s what it was definitively until someone confirmed it for me.

I usually pick it up on the palate more readily as well.

56

Larry - you have to stop trying to get people over the TCA thing. Switch to cork closures and join the 17th century finally! Sheesh.

Jerome - if you don’t mind it, don’t be paranoid about drinking a TCA wine. It won’t kill you. And if you’re cooking, you can use the wine. I made a mushroom ragout and used a corked bottle and it was just fine.

Wet newspapers just smell like wet newspapers. They don’t smell like TCA until they’ve been sitting on a concrete floor for a few months and they start to mildew. Then it’s unmistakable. As far as wet clothes, they end up smelling sour.

Since you’re in NJ, you’re in luck. There’s a lot of water and basement flooding. Go to someone’s basement where they have black mold growing. Sniff around. You might die, but at least you’ll know more about TCA.

If you don’t want to die, I might have a cork around that I can send you. I just moved so may not have brought it along. But I can keep the next one and ship it. Soak it in water or cheap wine overnight and then smell. TCA won’t harm you as far as I know. It will just lead to disappointment.

57

I guess dying for the sake of learning about wine is not as heroic as I imagined. [scratch.gif]

58

The actual science of how Tca affects our smell is also pretty interesting.

59

Maybe someone elso already mentioned this idea. It was years ago now, early imternet days, and I essentially googled,it, found a supplier of TCA, and then conducted the experiment with friends- spiking otherwise good wine (small experimental glassfuls). The revelation of course was recognizing it immediately, having had it in wine. Wet musty newpaper sounds about correct. But in very low doses I think some of us cannot detect the smell outright, but rather, the wineflavors are muted, kind of deadened. Will never forget the experiment.

60

Great idea. Where did you source the TCA?