How well do you know Burgundy?

WINE TALK
21

Nick,

Maybe Donald Trump should advocate banning all Aussies…is that the solution?

RE: enjoying grand crus at 5-6: I don’t think they can provide more pleasure, certainly not intellectual reward, at the pre-school age range than a villages or a lesser wine. Bottom line: at that point, it’s usually good , succululent/juicy pinot noir…if it isn’t shut down (and most of these galas seem to only “pop and pour”, which further blurs the differences between grand crus and the “lesser” pinot noirs from Burgundy. Certainly, they can be enjoyed…though their ability to age into something majestic is why they’re “grand crus”…and that element is foreclosed with offing them as toddlers. And, to me, it is sort of disrespectful to the terroir and the tradition and the domaine to kill them off before they can repay the tariff. But, enjoyable,…sure…especially if you don’t know how much more enjoyable they can be if allowed to reach , say, pubescence.

Re: Burgundians’ drinking patterns. If you’re talking about the winemakers and families and staff: almost no one I’ve met, save for Charles Rousseau and Christophe Roumier, have ever even experienced a mature version of their grand crus. Most have no interest…and are, generally, not wine focused when off duty. Those who do drink wine and appreciate it…aren’t that particular about what they drink. They all relish trying an aged example, though they rarely do…for economic reasons, among others. They aren’t drinking 5-6 year old grand crus because they “taste good”, though…I think they think doing that would be heresy and disrespectful to their terroirs. (They might open one to be hospitable to visiting billionaires or ballahs …or kangaroos…if they sense the need.)

No need to “defend” Jeremy, by the way…he is a deus ex machina of marathon libation and seeming endurance. And, he has a sense of humor about it…even if not always successful in his attempts.

Send you comments to Donald Trump c/o the next US primary state. He’s looking to build walls that even kangaroos can’t hop over.

22

Stuart,
whilst I understand where you are coming from, your opinions are just that, opinions (as are mine!!)
I have been fortunate to have been exposed to the wonders of Burgundy for coming up to 40 years, and have experienced many incredible wines, young and old. My greatest Burgundy “experience” had been the 1961 DRC RC, seen three times between 1995 and 2000. It was, however, equalled if not surpassed by a six year old GC, the Rousseau Clos de Beze 2005 seen in 2011. I spied this on a well-known Melbourne wine list for the ridiculously cheap price of about $280USD, and ordered it. Sheer perfection. Will it get better? No. You can’t improve on perfection. Will it become different? Yes, it will. But not better. I have drunk this particular wine several times since, and despite all the experts assuring us that 05 is “nowhere near ready to drink” this wine remains astonishing.
If ever I get thrown into prison for life, I will make it my task (as I will have endless “free” time) to record the notes on wine fora such as this one, and determine how many wines are unpleasant because they have been drunk too young, and how many are unpleasant because they have been drunk too old. Absolutely guarantee you the latter will be the majority.
As for “dis-respecting” the terroir, my guess is that most winemakers craft their wines for people to enjoy, and if that is at five years of age, so be it. For me, the greatest “dis-respect” would be to open a wine a decade too late, in the knowledge that the glorified vinegar in front of you was once a tribute to the land it came from.

23

I’ve never experienced a Burgundy (of either color) that was a “decade too late”. I think they last almost forever. (Though I think some mishandling…like popping and pouring without cleaning can simulate it.)

So, that’s why I am troubled by killing toddlers, instead. And, particularly, when they are killed en masse and reported on in a manner that is seemingly oblivious to how it can come accross.

I think it is the combo of mass infanticide and touting it with some pride that is the issue for me. When people make this public, all is open to comment…and “opinions”.

Good thing you weren’t around to consume the '61 DRC’s at 5 years old …or you would have never had your “greatest Burgundy experience” those three times…the bottles would have been in a landfill in New Zealand or the outback…or wherever Australia sends its refuse. pileon Luckily for you no one with your tastes was around to kill them off, as you have for the Rousseau and probably lots of others.

24

Do you really believe this? It strikes me that the persona you put forth here is largely about criticism and judgment. Wines drunk too young, wines not decanted long enough, wines that cost more than you like to spend, Neopolitan style pizza, Neopolitan style pizza in Philly that you deem too expensive, restaurants that don’t allow BYO, restaurants that allow BYO but charge too much for it, restaurants in general, high tech thermometers that cost a lot when you’ve been perfectly happy with your $5 probe for years, the notion that some people might drink only grand cru wines, the notion that some people might only post about grand cru wines etc. etc.

If this is truly not what you intend, then I suggest you take your own advice to Charlie et al and consider how you are coming off. Because I do not think I am the only one who perceives constant criticism flowing from your direction.

25

Thanks for reading.

I had forgotten about some of these subjects.

Good luck in your “big d—k contests”. An embarrassment of riches, or, drinking good wine with non- geek friends. - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

26

Sarah, there are several members who are all about the C & J. Don’t go getting the baseball bat for just poor Beaunehead, Mrs. Kirschbauminucci. Might as well swing it 'til it breaks, and I’m sure we all know a few C & J posters who could be on that list. [wink.gif]

27

Where in that topic do I say those events are mine or even that I attend them? I guess making assumptions goes right along with C&J, as Dennis puts it.

28

Stuart, bonehead says it all! There is no wrong time or circumstance to enjoy Burgundy!

29

I enjoyed all this up to the point where it stopped being about enjoying some good piss with mates.

30

’
’
You don’t.

You just injected that classy descriptor there.

31

Great notes as usual Jeremy,
Cheers,
Kevin

32

Really excellent and useful notes Jeremy!!
Keep posting!!

33

having had the pleasure of dining and drinking with jeremy and his mates, it’s always about good piss and never won’t be.

34

With 10 people, 23 bottles of wine and doubtlessly abundant food…there must have been multiple opportunities for “enjoying some good pisses with mates.” grouphug

I wonder if anyone passed out en route… [pillow-fight.gif]

35

Stuart,
just to set the record straight, I was (sadly) very much around when 61 DRC RC was 5 years old (my 40 years of drinking Burgundy implies it commenced at the legal drinking age of 18, although my first exposure to DRC was in 1965, at the age of 7 when we were on a ship returning to New Guinea … the ship had been purchased from a French Polynesian company and, according to my father, had a superb wine inventory they were basically “throwing out”… each evening at the dining table we sons were given a basic thimble each to try hehe. As I recall, it was DRC from the 50’s, but I have no idea what particular wines they were.)
my guess is, and of course it is only a guess, the 61DRC RC was pretty special at age 5 or 6!!!

36

looks like temperance to me–no cleansing ales.

37

I’m picturing this post as a wes Anderson movie and loving it. I can hear the soundtrack as well.

38

Great post, Jeremy, and a great night. Most any of us would have dropped most everything to be at such an event. I enjoyed reading about it very much.

I’m not really in Stuart’s camp at all (never really seem to be) but I do think that I would have had trouble keeping up as well with this many wines. Sure, with a survey of a number of lesser wines it works, but at this level, I think I would be holding up the group wanting to savor what I had. In my glass at the time. My own ideal would be to have five or six of these wines to savor and watch evolve over an evening with four or five wine buddies, or one to savor with my wife.

But I realize that that’s not the point of the event or the post, so more power to you, and keep it up.

39

Great thread.

Jeremy, thanks for excellent notes on some great wines enjoyed en masse and at a “youthful stage”

Stewart, thanks for reminding us that each of these bottles has the ability to fully occupy the senses of anyone taking the time to look.

Thank you both for writing it well enough to be worth reading the whole thing.

40

I am also a fan of comparative tastings and our group routinely manages 18 wines per tasting . The key for us is to have the same number of wineglasses per person as wines being served. This allows us to experience the evolution of the wine in the glass and also to go back and forth between wines at leisure.

Jeremy, I’ve always looked forward to your clear and descriptive notes. Thanks for taking the time to share.