General German Wine Aging Recommendations

[k_s_h_i_n]

I prefer the ice wines young, i.e. opulent fruit and sugar to counterbalance the acidity. I also enjoy BA and TBA young.

[John_Morris]

@D@vid Bu3ker

As always it depends on what you are drinking.

Grunahus didn’t drop much until post-2003 IMO. With Prum it was really noticeable post-2004 for me.

I never had sulfur issues with Donnhoff, and my experience goes back to 1994 new releases.

To name a few.

I don’t ever recall picking up sulfur in Donnhoff, either.

The overall reduction was apparent to me by the early 2000s from tastings. I remember asking winemakers about it on a visit to the Mosel in 2003, and around that time I asked Katrina Prum about it at a big tasting here in NY.

By contrast, I remember at a regular group of mine in San Francisco in the late 80s or early 90s that the room smelled of sulfur! And I routinely woke up with a headache after German tastings. By the mid-90s, that wasn’t a problem.

[David_Bu3ker]

So it sounds like you picked up on wave 1 of the reductions, while I picked up on wave 2, with further reductions.

[Michael_Lewis]

I drink my Riesling as soon as it arrives. Which is not to say it doesn’t age nicely, but that from a personal preference standpoint, I have learned that I like it best on release (assuming the particular wine is not comprised by sulfur or reduction, or some other reason not to drink it young). I also like that young bottles of the stuff can be tossed in the fridge and still do well on days two, three, four, etc.

[Russell_Faulkner]

You have to taste. My own preferences are more or less useless to you.

That said I tend to avoid the period from 5-10 years post harvest.

[Eric_Egan]

Personally I don’t understand this peculiar aversion to sulpher. Even with the ‘old’ levels there was never a lot of sulpher in the wines; decanting them would rid them of any noxious aromas, which might (and often would) be present on opening. The idea that there was a ‘dangerous’ amount of sulpher in wine is preposterous. There was never more than >0.3% even in heavily sulphored German wines; as compared to 3% in dried peanuts and 2% or threabouts in fresh(!) cauliflower, with slightly less in broccoli, kale, etc…

I’d take a heavily sulphored wine over a lightly dosed or natural wine any day.

[John_Morris]

@Eric Egan

Personally I don’t understand this peculiar aversion to sulpher. Even with the ‘old’ levels there was never a lot of sulpher in the wines; decanting them would rid them of any noxious aromas, which might (and often would) be present on opening. The idea that there was a ‘dangerous’ amount of sulpher in wine is preposterous. There was never more than >0.3% even in heavily sulphored German wines; as compared to 3% in dried peanuts and 2% or threabouts in fresh(!) cauliflower, with slightly less in broccoli, kale, etc…

I’d take a heavily sulphored wine over a lightly dosed or natural wine any day.

I thought you were going to say you’d take a riesling over broccoli or kale any day.

[Claus_Jeppesen]

@John Morris

@G. Bienstock

I generally like 10-12 years old as a starting point for below Auslese level.

@D@vid Bu3ker

For all those categories it depends on the producer. I have not issue with aging Estate Riesling or Kabinett for 10-20 years. Spatlese can easily go 30+, and a well stored Auslese is essentially immortal.

Overall I drink QbA type wines any time. Kabinett I tend to start in on from 7-8 years post vintage, and Spatlese/Auslese after 12-15 years.

I agree with these guidelines. I’m sipping the remains of a 375 ml 1998 Donnhoff Oberhauser Brucke Auslese opened two weeks ago with Keith Levenberg, Jay Miller, Asher Rubinstein and Leo Frokic. It is singing more beautifully than it did on day 1, but it has many years ahead of it.

Yes it is very impressive to follow an Auslese/Spätlese etc improve over several days after opening. This goes for both mature and young bottles.

[Eric_Egan]

@John Morris

@Eric Egan

Personally I don’t understand this peculiar aversion to sulpher. Even with the ‘old’ levels there was never a lot of sulpher in the wines; decanting them would rid them of any noxious aromas, which might (and often would) be present on opening. The idea that there was a ‘dangerous’ amount of sulpher in wine is preposterous. There was never more than >0.3% even in heavily sulphored German wines; as compared to 3% in dried peanuts and 2% or threabouts in fresh(!) cauliflower, with slightly less in broccoli, kale, etc…

I’d take a heavily sulphored wine over a lightly dosed or natural wine any day.

I thought you were going to say you’d take a riesling over broccoli or kale any day.

I suppose I would, if push came to shove. Nowadays I can’t afford to do it as much as I’d like though; I have to have kale on a regular basis to make sure I get enough sulpher in my diet.

[Claus_Jeppesen]

@Jürgen Steinke

Most German wine lovers drink Riesling on the younger side. QbA within the first 3 years, Kabinett within the first 5, Spätlese within the first 10, Auslese within the first 15 years. Großes Gewächs within the first 15 years. Beerenauslese, Trockenbeerenauslese can age for 50 years. All depending on style, vintage and COLD STORING.

Taste is a personal thing. But most German wine producers I know drink their wines when they are still fresh without loosing energy.

Most germans prefer Trocken, or is this a myth?
Regarding freshness: I have had several 25 years old QBA that were razorsharp and as refreshing as a 2016 version.
Except for JJ Prüm, whos wines I always prefer with at least 15 years of age, I enjoy a lot of young AND mature Riesling.

[Jurgen_Steinke]

Howard,

true what you said. But young/old wine is probably the most individual thing at all.

Residual sugar or not – wines evolve to a certain extend – but the wines change their personality. I like freshness in Riesling if it´s sweet or dry.

Kevin,

I agree on Eiswein. Drink it young. Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese gain complexity and balance with age. IMO.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Jürgen Steinke

Kevin,

I agree on Eiswein. Drink it young. Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese gain complexity and balance with age. IMO.

I agree on Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese but they are so intense yet delicious when young as well.

[Keith_Levenberg]

It really depends on how you like the wine. Aged kabinett/spatlese/auslese is very different from the young stuff. It took me awhile to figure out I prefer them on the younger side, with some exceptions like Prum. 8 years or so in the cellar, give or take, is about ideal for me. I am with Jurgen in needing freshness. Once they lose that freshness and start feeling dull and listless, I lose interest.

[John_Morris]

@Keith Levenberg

Once they lose that freshness and start feeling dull and listless, I lose interest.

And I prefer them when they’ve faded a little and have become elusive, coy and ethereal.

[SteveG]

This is OT, but since the thread is full of riesling experts…

We had this wine last night:

2015 Von Schubert Maximin Grünhäuser Abtsberg Riesling Kabinett

Really delicious, and great with our salmon cakes. I know, a little young…

In any case, I noticed it shows 7% ABV, and I would place its apparent sweetness at the high end of kabinett, I am wondering by what mechanism does the fermentation stop at this point is such a wine? Does the winemaker do something? Obviously the alcohol is not too high for the yeast (is it?), and there is plenty of sugar still around to ferment. I am probably missing something obvious…

TIA

[Claus_Jeppesen]

@Keith Levenberg

It really depends on how you like the wine. Aged kabinett/spatlese/auslese is very different from the young stuff. It took me awhile to figure out I prefer them on the younger side, with some exceptions like Prum. 8 years or so in the cellar, give or take, is about ideal for me. I am with Jurgen in needing freshness. Once they lose that freshness and start feeling dull and listless, I lose interest.

If they are dull and listless they are oth or flawed. Oth is a flaw when we are talking good oroducers post war bottles. Also some pre-war I am told.

[Jay_Miller]

@John Morris

@Keith Levenberg

Once they lose that freshness and start feeling dull and listless, I lose interest.

And I prefer them when they’ve faded a little and have become elusive, coy and ethereal.

And I like both, just not the in between shut down period.

[Corey_N]

@Jay Miller

@John Morris

@Keith Levenberg

Once they lose that freshness and start feeling dull and listless, I lose interest.

And I prefer them when they’ve faded a little and have become elusive, coy and ethereal.

And I like both, just not the in between shut down period.

I’m with Jay. Variety is more fun.

[John_Morris]

I like them young, too. But that’s a comparatively facile pleasure.

[Jay_Miller]

@John Morris

I like them young, too. But that’s a comparatively facile pleasure.

And I’d disagree. For me it’s a very different pleasure but many young German rieslings can show an impressive degree of complexity as well as deliciousness when young.

I would never want to have to choose between one or the other.