It was the Bronx.
Louie’s. Try the veal, it’s the best in the city.
I always wanted to produce an Alpacino but haven’t been able to find anyone to plant it for me here in California.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
Never again!
?
That’s not quite AlPacino… but i doubt a real photo of it can be shown here. 
The concern over natural wine, at least in English, dates back to the 17th century. Adulterated wines were wines mixed with other ingredients spices, metals, etc. Sophisticated wines were mixed with other wines. A pure wine was simply one that did not have water added. A natural wine was made solely from grapes with nothing subsequently mixed in. There is an account from 1701 describing “that pure and natural Wine is only drank” in Genoa, Italy. There was management for each cellar that was responsible to the state. If the managing officers ever allowed the wine to be adulterated or mixed they would apparently be hung.
In more contemporary times the methods created by Chaptal, Petiot, and Gall invigorated the debate over what constituted a natural wine. And yes, some took the view that you could not have natural wine unless you made it from wild vines. It was a big issue in the 19th century with several countries legally defining it about 100 years ago. In America the addition of sugar solutions, sulphites, clarifying agents, and normal manipulations were allowable.
Aaron
Aaron - where did you come from? This thread was weaving a wonderful tapestry of cinema, sociology, non sequiturs, and randomness. What you say is of course interesting, but not necessary. Do a search for all the past threads and you’ll understand. Let this one take it’s whimsical path to wherever it ends up, which surely will be some place natural . . . ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Just responding to Wes’ “History lesson” earlier in the thread.
ybarselah wrote:
Anyone have a list of chemicals that are allowed to be used in Organic and/or Bio winemaking?
Wait a second. Copper sulfate is OK if the soil is deficient, but not as an antifungal? So all those Biodynamic producers using Copper are not organic?
I think the answer is simple as can be - natural wine is wine that is in “balance.”
I would define “scrambunctious wine” as any wine resulting from a years-long effort to reduce inputs (both viticulturally and enologically) to well below a local industry’s norms. This effort will almost certainly entail the assumption of a high level of risk on the part of the producer both financially and qualitatively (if quality is judged from a classical perspective).
Personally I love the métier, even if I’m not quite there yet in my own production practices and even if I find some of the wines hard to swallow.
I wish there was less contentiousness surrounding the subject as the philosophies and practices being kicked around within the scrambunctious wine community deserve a wider audience.
I find the use of the term scrambunctious to be insulting to all other wines. It implies that they are rambunctious which is obviously a calculated insult.
hush!
Not at all. It’s clear. It all depends on the purpose. After all, you’re starting out with a vine that’s grafted onto a rootstock from a different continent. After that you’re free to make your own rules.