DRC oak regime?

[John_Morris]

@larry schaffer

@Brandon R

Come on, Jon, you know very well it’s not the fact that it’s 100% new oak, but how that oaks shows in the final wine. The pitchfork wielders come out only when that oak is super evident in the wine. I have a sneaking suspicion that DRC might know a thing or two about managing that oak. Just maybe.

Brandon,

I don’t believe Jon is blowing anything out of proportion at this point. There are multiple instances where people take offense at new Oak with wines, even if it is shown that the proportion is relatively small.

I totally agree with you that it’s not the percentage of new Oak but how well it is integrated. And much of that has to do with the toasting of the barrels themselves, the makeup of the fruit itself, and how long the wine sees in Oak.

And much of it has to do with the wine that’s going in the barrels. I expect new oak on Cal cabs and Bordeaux, and on top-flight red and white Burgundies. That tends to integrate with time. I generally don’t like much or any oak on Barolo or Barbaresco. Whatever appeal it sometimes gives wines up front, it tends to mess up the aromatics with age and make the wines imprecise, I find. Same thing with syrah in the Northern Rhone (except that I’ve enjoyed Guigal’s heavily oaked Cote Roties).

I go for my pitchforks when it feels like the wine has been tarted up with new oak to win points.

[Francois_Audouze]

Noah wrote :

“How would we know? Most of the DRC in the market is probably fake!”

based on what ?
Some years ago, when bottles of domaine Ponsot were withdrawn of a sale because they were obviously fakes, Mr. Ponsot declared : “today, 80% of Burgundies on the market are fakes”. He had not the slightest idea about the actual situation and he put an abnormal suspicion on the market.

Fakes exist, it is absolutely true, but declarations like yours could have a negative impact because what is reality?
Who knows the reality?

[Mel_Knox]

When I was selling Francois Freres I would tell people how wonderful the DRC wines were in FF bbls…the response was, I ll buy some barrels if you can get me some of the grapes.

[NoahR]

@François Audouze

Noah wrote :

“How would we know? Most of the DRC in the market is probably fake!”

based on what ?
Some years ago, when bottles of domaine Ponsot were withdrawn of a sale because they were obviously fakes, Mr. Ponsot declared : “today, 80% of Burgundies on the market are fakes”. He had not the slightest idea about the actual situation and he put an abnormal suspicion on the market.

Fakes exist, it is absolutely true, but declarations like yours could have a negative impact because what is reality?
Who knows the reality?

Francois, that statement was a joke and based on recent action on The Burghound and other threads.

But, since you’re here: what are your thoughts on the oak signature of DRC and whether it remains noticeable after years. You have probably more experience with old bottles of DRC than most.

[alan_weinberg]

I’ve always found spice and fruit foremost. Never noticed oak.

[Gerhard_P]

@NoahR

@François Audouze

Noah wrote :

“How would we know? Most of the DRC in the market is probably fake!”

based on what ?
Some years ago, when bottles of domaine Ponsot were withdrawn of a sale because they were obviously fakes, Mr. Ponsot declared : “today, 80% of Burgundies on the market are fakes”. He had not the slightest idea about the actual situation and he put an abnormal suspicion on the market.

Fakes exist, it is absolutely true, but declarations like yours could have a negative impact because what is reality?
Who knows the reality?

Francois, that statement was a joke and based on recent action on The Burghound and other threads.

But, since you’re here: what are your thoughts on the oak signature of DRC and whether it remains noticeable after years. You have probably more experience with old bottles of DRC than most.

I have far less experience with DRC wines than Francois, but I´ve never noticed any oak in (close to) really mature DRC wines …
(and most other wines from top-producers).

It´s usually a question of enough time in the bottle …

[LMD_Ermitano]

@Gerhard P.

I have far less experience with DRC wines than Francois, but I´ve never noticed any oak in (close to) really mature DRC wines …
(and most other wines from top-producers).

It´s usually a question of enough time in the bottle …

Same in my experience.

[paul_hanna]

The oak handling is always very well judged, and backed by depth and power in the fruit never sticks out or looks out of place.

Have had hundreds of DRC’s, and can’t remember one where this wasn’t so.

[larry_schaffer]

I’m wondering if anyone has done Barrel tastings at DRC and what those wines might be like as youngsters in Barrel. I’m wondering if the barrel influence shows in them at that point.

Cheers.

[Anton_D]

I heard 80% new oak and the rest in barrels lined with the highest denomination currency they can find.

[Ed_Gonzales]

@Jeremy Holmes

100% new and nearly all Francois Freres.

i assume this is across the board including the corton and the batard they serve at the domaine? i’ve never had either.

[Kelly_Walker]

@larry schaffer

I’m wondering if anyone has done Barrel tastings at DRC and what those wines might be like as youngsters in Barrel. I’m wondering if the barrel influence shows in them at that point.

Cheers.

Barrel tasted the 2016s a few weeks ago. They were all still mid-malo with a bit of spritz but even at that stage the wines showed amazing balance.

[larry_schaffer]

@Kelly Walker

@larry schaffer

I’m wondering if anyone has done Barrel tastings at DRC and what those wines might be like as youngsters in Barrel. I’m wondering if the barrel influence shows in them at that point.

Cheers.

Barrel tasted the 2016s a few weeks ago. They were all still mid-malo with a bit of spritz but even at that stage the wines showed amazing balance.

Thanks for the prompt reply! I truly appreciate it. So there was no noticeable Oak at all? It would be so fascinating to try the same wine out of an older Barrel just to see.

[Craig_G]

We had a 2001 RSV a few weeks ago. If you thought about it a bit you could easily identify oak, but the overall nose was one of the most interesting I’ve ever experienced. It carries it very well.

[Thomas_L]

Mel, please correct me if I am mistaken, but don’t most wineries use barrels made from wood seasoned for two years? If DRC is using 3-year and 4-year wood then this would have a significant impact on the final product.

[LMD_Ermitano]

The youngest DRC I’ve had was their 1997 Montrachet, the first time was in mid 2005 or 2006. The oak was definitely there, not hidden in any terms; but, it was still in balance. The obvious oak was, to my mind, “part of the game” in drinking it so young.

[Mel_Knox]

Thomas,

You are correct. The use of the three year wood will give you a more subtle touch of oak.

[edwardmilstein]

Mel- could it also be a lighter toast ?

[Mel_Knox]

Edward,

When a winemaker called us up and asked for a light toast, our first question was: when did you get back from Burgundy?

Burgundian winemakers sometimes tell people they use light toast, but in reality it’s not so. Henri Jayer used to tell people he used light toast, but looking at the barrels being made, I would have said heavy.

Another key point is that the longer you season the wood, the more subtle the toast appears, regardless of toasting regime.

[Brandon_J]

That’s fascinating.

I personally couldn’t care less how much or little new oak is used but if it clouds the grapes/nose I’ll go on 10 minute tangents despite the chagrin of the misses.

So what do you do as a winemaker to combat that? I recently tried a 100% new oak White Rose Pinot and was shocked it was 100%. I had just tried a pinot that was 20% new from another producer and it tasted far more oaky than the White Rose.

Is it purely cooperage? Or extended aging? Fruit that can take it? Combination of many things?