Coffee grinders and related issues

[ybarselah]

@Sarah Kirschbaum

@Chris S p i k e s

I think it’s important to note that a great espresso grinder does not make a great coffee (drip, pour over, French press,…) grinder. They are different beasts at the high end and you’ll need different grinders to get the maximum experience. Listen to Yaacov.

Not sure I totally agree with this. If you have a grinder that will do what you need for espresso, it should also do a bang-up job for your drip coffee grind. I think the point Yaacov was particularly stressing is that you don’t need the very best grinder unless you are making espresso, not that you’ll need different high-end grinders for the best drip and the best espresso. That is how I read his posts.

well, maybe is the best i can come up with. it seems intuitive that what you say is true, but there may actually be differences. for example, baratza claims that their grinders work best with ceramic burrs for espresso but steel burrs for course-grind methods.

Grinding for Espresso - Metal vs Ceramic Burrs - Baratza

but this is really, really esoteric and more than a little crazy.

i think it’s still good advice to NOT buy a great espresso grinder if you don’t intend to make espresso. thankfully, that advice also results in spending significantly less money.

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

Is there any way to make decent espresso Yaacov on a space-normal budget?

[ybarselah]

@Glenn L e v i n e

Is there any way to make decent espresso Yaacov on a space-normal budget?

what’s your budget all in? (grinder and machine)

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

I am not honestly certain. If you told me decent can had for $3-400 and you got to jump to $800 to get marginally better I’d have to think.

We loved the espresso @ Oenotri last month in Napa.

[ybarselah]

@Glenn L e v i n e

I am not honestly certain. If you told me decent can had for $3-400 and you got to jump to $800 to get marginally better I’d have to think.

We loved the espresso @ Oenotri last month in Napa.

that’ll be very tight as the grinder itself will be $300+

i suggest getting one of the entry level breville machines and a vario refurb directly from baratza. the breville duo-temp pro is sold at bbb for $400 and you can use one of those 20% off coupons (usually). that’ll be around $700 all in and would be a more-than-decent setup.

but understand that you’ll likely want to upgrade the machine within a year. they really start getting good at $1000+

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

When you say machine you mean the espresso maker? So realistic budget to get going in-stride is $1300-1500?

And thanks man.

[Chris_S_p_i_k_e_s]

@ybarselah

@Sarah Kirschbaum

@Chris S p i k e s

I think it’s important to note that a great espresso grinder does not make a great coffee (drip, pour over, French press,…) grinder. They are different beasts at the high end and you’ll need different grinders to get the maximum experience. Listen to Yaacov.

Not sure I totally agree with this. If you have a grinder that will do what you need for espresso, it should also do a bang-up job for your drip coffee grind. I think the point Yaacov was particularly stressing is that you don’t need the very best grinder unless you are making espresso, not that you’ll need different high-end grinders for the best drip and the best espresso. That is how I read his posts.

well, maybe is the best i can come up with. it seems intuitive that what you say is true, but there may actually be differences. for example, baratza claims that their grinders work best with ceramic burrs for espresso but steel burrs for course-grind methods.

Grinding for Espresso - Metal vs Ceramic Burrs - Baratza

but this is really, really esoteric and more than a little crazy.

i think it’s still good advice to NOT buy a great espresso grinder if you don’t intend to make espresso. thankfully, that advice also results in spending significantly less money.

I agree with all of this. One of the most important aspects of a grinder (perhaps the MOST important) is the consistency of the grind. The thought is that a good espresso grinder can’t necessarily generate that consistency at a coarser setting and it’s especially true the other way. But, I also agree that you’re getting pretty esoteric unless you’re into coffee like we’re into wine.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Yeah, since most drip machines want a medium grind, as opposed to a french press, for example, which wants far coarser, I think only the geekiest geek would claim a Mazzer or a Baratza espresso grinder falls short for grinding the beans for their regular coffee. And they are likely imagining it.

[ybarselah]

@Glenn L e v i n e

When you say machine you mean the espresso maker? So realistic budget to get going in-stride is $1300-1500?

And thanks man.

yes, pretty much…any time. you can hunt down some used equipment on coffee forums, but those tend to be pretty high end.

[Larry_P]

@Sarah Kirschbaum

Yeah, since most drip machines wants a medium grind, as opposed to a french press, for example, which wants far coarser, I think only the geekiest geek would claim a Mazzer or a Baratza espresso grinder falls short for grinding the beans for their regular coffee. And they are likely imagining it.

Yes I agree one downside of the Baratza Vario is that it doesn’t quite go coarse enough for French Press. For drip it’s fine.

[M_Hudson]

@ybarselah

@Glenn L e v i n e

I am not honestly certain. If you told me decent can had for $3-400 and you got to jump to $800 to get marginally better I’d have to think.

We loved the espresso @ Oenotri last month in Napa.

that’ll be very tight as the grinder itself will be $300+

i suggest getting one of the entry level breville machines and a vario refurb directly from baratza. the breville duo-temp pro is sold at bbb for $400 and you can use one of those 20% off coupons (usually). that’ll be around $700 all in and would be a more-than-decent setup.

but understand that you’ll likely want to upgrade the machine within a year. they really start getting good at $1000+

I am going to say don’t waste your money and find a shop you love. In my opinion there is no decent espresso from home sub 1K.

[Kenny_H]

Same but different question. What if the only grind I wanted was french press? Will almost any burr do or is there…

[Kenny_H]

@M Hudson

I am going to say don’t waste your money and find a shop you love. In my opinion there is no decent espresso from home sub 1K.

Isnt that relative? I think my Breville cheapo setup still blows charbucks espresso out of the water. No feat to be sure, but at least it is drinkable.

[ybarselah]

@M Hudson

I am going to say don’t waste your money and find a shop you love. In my opinion there is no decent espresso from home sub 1K.

i don’t think that’s true at all.

[Rick_Smith]

@Barry L i p t o n

Thanks! Any experience with the virtuoso?

I have it with my Technivorm. A great, realistic price, set up. I couldn’t be happier.

[Larry_P]

@ybarselah

@M Hudson

I am going to say don’t waste your money and find a shop you love. In my opinion there is no decent espresso from home sub 1K.

i don’t think that’s true at all.

I have a Baratza Vario and Breville Infuser, all-in just under $1K. It unequivocally blows away any coffee you’d get in a 30-mile radius of my house. The only downside I’d say is the single boiler machine isn’t great for cranking out several cups in a row, but it’s not an issue for me.

[M_Hudson]

@ybarselah

@M Hudson

I am going to say don’t waste your money and find a shop you love. In my opinion there is no decent espresso from home sub 1K.

i don’t think that’s true at all.

To Kenny, everything like this is subjective, so yes, it’s a realitive statement.

Yaccov tell me a grinder machine combo you consider worth that prices out under 1k. And we won’t even talk about scales, pitchers, etc.

And guys I don’t even consider char bucks drinkable.

[ybarselah]

i don’t see any value to this thread in attempting to convince you that you’re wrong on this issue.