Thanks for the interesting post, and welcome to WB, Fred!
That describes me! Even at 40+, I love my fixie.
But I agree with your general sentiment. I am finding more pleasure in Bdx after eschewing it for a while.
A.
You forgot your tin-foil this morning.
Either put up or shut the fuck up with all this conspiracy theory bullshit.
A.
Is it possible that modern Bordeaux, with it’s oak driven style and spit-polished tannins, has just become less intellectually engaging for wine geeks?
I ask the question because I wonder if the fact that I don’t find myself interested in checking in on the Bordeaux in my cellar is due to my personal preferences (I don’t like Cab as much as other grapes) or a modern style that just isn’t that interesting…or both.
A propaganda campaign emanating from a party organ like the NY Times cannot be understood unless it is viewed through the filter of [u]Who? Whom?[/u]
One group of people in this piece of propaganda is portrayed as sleek, sexy, hip, teh new hawtness.
The other group of people in this piece of propaganda is portrayed as old, fuddy-duddy, gray-beard, one-foot-in-the-grave has-beens.
At which point, I assume [can’t I?] that you can the perform the remaining arithmetic for yourself.
[Hint: Just ask yourself, “Who? Whom?”]
I don’t know, I feel like first growths are rare like diamonds are rare, they are both a manufactured scarcity. 20K case production from one producer isn’t exactly miniscule.
As to the snapshot, I don’t think that the piece (or the accompanying blog post) claim to say more. He is pointing out what he sees in what is admittedly a really big and important (and yes, cutting edge, and yes perhaps trendy) market. But I suspect that it is a mistake for business to ignore a trend, even one decried as hipster fashion, as much as it is to chase trends. Maybe they don’t care. They’ll go long on emerging markets and perhaps it will work out. In any case I don’t think the tone was really “look out bordeaux” it was just a view of what is going on, supported by some data points over a twenty five year window.
Kevin, I do think that there is something too that. There are a bunch of new-age bordeaux wines that are all flash. But I don’t think that is the real underlying problem noted in the article. In fact, I would think (for reasons Carl noted) that these are precisely the wines restaurants would want to carry. Flattering on the surface, not particularly age-worthy, easy, obvious appeal.
I think the bordeaux-are-too-expensive line has become a perpetual motion machine, feeding off itself and dissuading inquiry from new buyers. That and devotion to the labels of the past. Can’t count on drinking cheaply in bordeaux if you insist on the 1sts and super-seconds. Just can’t.
While I can understand that there are two groups here, the young and hip versus the old fuddy-duddy, I fail to see how this translates into anything resembling a conspiracy. Statements like “do the arithmetic” don’t advance your case, because arithmetic implies a straightforward addition and/or subtraction operation, while your point is obscure, to say the least…
Sigh.
Okay, try reading the article again, but this time, as you are reading it, ask yourself, “Whose ox is being gored?”
I went to public school and live in the south, so I am a little slow. Can you explian what is going on here? Does EA have some secret agenda?
Nathan, the problems is you have leapt from an alignment of interests to a corrupt motive. That is a stretch. Unless there is more than this, it is hard to take allegations of a conspiracy seriously.
I got some tin foil from the kitchen, wrapped it around my head, read it again and … it made no difference. What ply do you use?
Seriously, if you can’t articulate it then it doesn’t exist except in your head. Back up your claims of this vast NY wine crowd conspiracy with real facts and not your deconstructionist fantasies. I don’t think you can and I don’t think you have the balls to say anything other than innuendo because you are not willing or able to defend your position.
Neal - it isn’t just this article. It is virtually every post on every subject we get this nonsense.
A.
Good question. Why have the hipsters abandoned Bordeaux? No “natural wine” angle? Repulsed by the marketing, pomp and pretense? Lesser match with today’s cuisine (i.e.: spoofed style)? Is Bordeaux completely devoid of winemakers like the Gang of Four, Eric Texier, etc.? Have we all forgotten their non sweet whites?
RT
While that works for you Stateside guys, up here you’re adding $50-100 to those prices
Lots of interesting points in this thread (and Lyle, my first “wow, what IS this” experience was Bordeaux too—a 1984 low-appelation Margaux commune wine that I don’t even remember the name of), but I really take Jim’s point about young somms/professionals.
I’m as ready as the next guy or gal to have that epiphany moment, but I have also found that, at least as often, my fondness for a region has come as a result of experiential buildup–the Loire being a perfect example of that. Bordeaux at the upper end has priced itself out of the ability to provide that opportunity to many of these people. Bruce’s comment about changes in food preferences also is noteworthy to me.
maluhia,
Grist for Nathan’s conspiracy wheel, Alder has weighed in and is in total agreement:
Bordeaux. The Anti-Millenial Wine? : Vinography" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I’d add that’s it’s important to disentangle one’s beliefs from what is occurring. So while I might think that anyone who liked the first Matrix movie and hated the second is wrong, I can’t deny that most people feel that way.
So the important thing here is not if the “young hipsters” or whatever you want to call the new generation of wine drinkers is wrong to dismiss Bordeaux, but is this actually occurring in the marketplace and if so, is that a problem for Bordeaux going forward and what they can do about it? You could argue that this isn’t a big problem, it’s sort like comparing broadcast station performance pre-cable to now, there are just a ton more choices out in the world and it’s inevitable that less Bordeaux is consumed in this country as a result.
But I think the point of both articles is attempting to be more forward looking. It’s pretty well established that the Millenial generation is much more into wine than just about any generation that’s come along the pike in a long time–you do not want to be the wine that, for whatever reason, this generation looks down its nose at, rightly or wrongly.
The relationship Millenails have with wine is very different from previous generations. Bdx gets press for lots of reasons not in the least being the oldest organized player in the game, but the effects will be felt in the US market for all the established players. While among some “hipster” wine drinkers, Bdx has a negative connotation, the broader fact is that old brands like “Bordeaux” just have less meaning or attraction (not negative meaning) to the Millenial drinkers.
A.
The bottom line, as others have said, is that Bordeaux is typically prohibitively expensive and needs time to come around, even when moderately priced. Maybe I haven’t looked hard enough, but I have tried to shop around a bit on Bdx and the critics’ descriptions of say $20 to $40 Bdx tend to highlight oakiness and borderline spoof. That seems not to be the case at higher price points, but then you are really pushing into some expensive wines.
The cartel-like market of Bordeaux is yet another obstacle. There surely was a time when having a port and a powerful marketing arm was vital, but today information and transportation allow for wines from the boondocks to make their name around the world. There’s no need for me to engage with this system when alternate options abound.
At the same time, I do intend to learn about Bordeaux, eventually. It’s a question of style, and the classic aged claret is one of the most important ones. But from a practical perspective it makes more sense to drink wines that come around sooner and cost less even if they are an altogether different style. These wines can still be delicious and balanced with a certain youthful complexity. The end point of any wine is being drunk, and all that matters to me is that it is good when it is ready. Trying diverse styles is another question.
Precisely. Prior generations saw wine only as a luxury good, as a sign of living the good life. Of course there are hipsters who watch the indy movies, follow the indy bands and drink the obscure wines just so they have their niche. (Curiously PBR lager is a hipster favorite, but I digress . . . .) But most people aren’t hipsters. They aren’t chasing a trend; they just want wine that is good and doesn’t cost too much. And if you want to learn about wine, buying luxury wines leads to a very narrow appreciation, first by limiting how many wines you can buy and second by assuming this is the ultimate expression or one absolute truth.
Anyway, younger drinkers more often desire wine as a drink, not a fetish. Naturally that means collectibles that must age for a decade plus are not especially appealing. It’s more democratic anyway–it’s silly to frame wine appreciation as something that is only possible with time, space and money. So not everyone will experience aged First Growths, but more than ever there is something for everyone.
I literally LOL’d when I read the following in the article:
"… Cory Cartwright, 30, who is a partner in Selection Massale, a new company in San Jose, Calif., that imports natural and traditional wines made by small producers …“I don’t know many people who like or drink Bordeaux.”
Hard to believe that Mr. Cartwright who apparently sells non-bordeaux wines would not have positive comments about bordeaux. I am also shocked that his (probably 30-ish year-old) acquaintances – who of course at that age are probably very familiar with bordeaux – do not like it or drink it.
Asimov may be correct, but this article is not especially illuminating.
For anyone that’s been involved in wine, be it as a wine consumer or business person, this paradigm shift did not happen overnight. The peak of the US Bordeaux market IMHO came with the 95-96 vintages. Several things happened that caused a groundswell of interest.
First many younger wine lovers who got into hyped up lower priced California Cabs during the go go 80’s did not get into Bordeaux until the mid 90s. While for years there was a vast constituency of Bordeaux lovers yes, but California had a hype machine for the 1984-1987 vintages that carried them for the next decade. Meanwhile even though Bordeaux had several good vintages, most mainstream wine lovers (i.e. The Wine Spectator subscribers) ignored the great 89 and 90 vintages. Bordeaux then tanked with lousy vintages from 1991-94. During those years though California really took off with the cult rage, and Bordeaux was almost forgotten.
Then something happened in 1995, Bordeaux had a decent year. The Bordelais realized that what worked for California, should work for them so they revved up the hype machine. At the same time California prices had risen to the point that combined with Wine Spectator hype (1995 Bordeaux is back)and Parker hype (1996), Bordeaux was not only affordable, but now was also producing some wines as good as California Cabernet (yas sarcastic, but bear with me here.)
So for the Baby Boomers Bordeaux came back in vogue and carried prestige…once again…and it took off. Then came the internet bubble and damn…well anyway…
Meanwhile, come the late 90’s and early 2000’s, the next generation of wine lover did not have to choose between California and Bordeaux, because newer more fashionable regions popped up…Australia was more than just Grange…Spain more than just Vega Secilia …Italy more than just Chianti…
But that didn’t stop the Bordeaux hype machine…not by a long shot…2000…2003…2005…2008…2009…each one getting better…each one costing more…Bordeaux burnout…
Now it looks like Bordeaux has become the victim of it’s own success…hype…hype and more hype and guess what? We don’t need you anymore Bordeaux. We certainly don’t need it impress anyone, and we don’t need it to sit in our cellars for 20 years until its ready. Further still, if I am going to a bar, the last thing I am going to pay $30 for is a GLASS of wine…
But there is hope…hopefully the Euro will tank even more and Bordeaux will have some sucky vintages for a couple years…then maybe we’ll find out once again that Bordeaux is as good as Argentinian Malbec ![[thankyou.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/df165fe9c1593d19166ae7e1ffe5e272089cc07b.gif "thankyou"){kind=small}