Berserker Wine Exploration Week 3/21-28/2010: BEAUJOLAIS

WINE TALK
21

Here is a TN from a tasting last November.

Domaine du Vissoux, Pierre-Marie Chermette, Saint-Vérand
One of my favourite Beaujolais estates and these wines did not disappoint.
Beaujolais Tradition Vieilles Vignes 2008 (€8,50) was a model of what basic Beaujolais should be but rarely is; savoury stewed plum fruit with lively acidity and minerals and robustly mouth-filling; not complex or sophisticated but eminently quaffable and moreish; 15/20++ QPR!.
Fleurie Poncié 2008 (€12) befittingly showed rounder fruit and greater complexity and charm whilst retaining the lively acidity and minerals; 16/20 QPR!

I bought a half-dozen of each and, after last night’s bottle of Fleurie, there are only one of each left. In that short time they have become even more expressive and I would now rate the Beaujolais Tradition VV at 15.5/20++ and the Fleurie, which has gained in bouquet and refinement, at 16/20+++. I could have gone on drinking it all evening [basic-smile.gif] .

22

Peter,
The comparison of Lapierre to village Chambolle has struck me recently as well.
I have a lot more experience with Morgon than Chambolle - two different 06 Chambolles in the past year reminded me of Morgon in the Lapierre style. And as much as I enjoyed the Chambolles, Lapierre is so much cheaper…

23

Richard - I went in expecting the Fleurie to be more elegant/refined and the Morgon to be burlier, which from my reading sounds like is usually the case. That would be a fun comparison!

Scott - It’s the first thing that came to mind, good to see someone else sees similarities. I’ll have to explore more Lapierre wines, I drink a decent amount of Cru Bojo but usually from Thevenet, Foillard, Thivin and Burgaud. The Lapierre and the Terres Dorees jumped into their league (and maybe beyond).

24

My impression of Fleurie, from a small number of producers, is that it often has a fleshiness in the mouthfeel. I don’t get that from Morgon. To continue the comparison, if Morgon is Chambolle, Fleurie is more Pommard.
I don’t know that I’ve ever seen any one else make this observation about the mouthfeel of Fleurie - just my two cents.

Likewise, I think there is a wildness, perhaps natural-ness better expresses the impression, to Brun’s wines that makes them distinct from producers like Lapierre. I’ve tasted a couple recent vintages of Brun’s Morgon and Fleurie (is there only one from Brun?) and in a blind tasting I’d bet the Lapierre would stand apart, with the Brun wines being harder to differentiate.

25

This discussion would be great for the Beaujolais Exploration topic. Perhaps after a couple of days you guys wouldn’t mind if I asked Todd to merge it into that thread??

I don’t want to be too discouraging about “early” tasting notes either. I think I will try to collect my earlier notes and wait a few days to put them in but heck, the more the merrier…

26

Thanks for the notes.

Had a wonderful Fleurie (too) many years ago in a 1-* resto in Lyon. All I can remember is a light, fresh, flowery taste. Two of us finished one bbl for lunch and managed to drive back to Grenoble with no ill effects.

More recently, the Lapierre Morgon 2002. Medium bodied, wonderful delicate fruit taste, elegant, floats on the tongue, a real delight. I didn’t get any dark flavor at all out of this one.

Just bought several Lapierre 2007 Cuvee Marcel Lapierre. From reports, this is a bit more intense and darker, but haven’t tried it yet.

One thing to look out for is storage. Keep them cool! They are very delicate (several of my '02s went bad due to high temps)

Where did you get yours? The Cuvee I found at Chambers Street Wines (but I believe they are already sold out). Not so easy to get in the US.

27

fine by me

28

Peter,
How high were the temps that damaged yours?

I’ve got my wine in a space where the highs hit the low 60s. Even for burgs and bubblies I’m okay with that temp range.

The wines I’m concerned about storing in that temp range are all low/no so2 - primarily Beaujolais. I’d like to age them perhaps as far at 10 years from vintage date.

Will low 60s be high enough to damage such vulnerable wines?

29

The temp got up to 70 in summer, so say for a month or two. I forget if it took one or two summers for them to go. I saw a rec (I think via the Chambers St site, but wherever it was it seemed reputable) that they should be kept at 57 or below. One reason for this is the very low sulfite levels. I had some other bottles in a cooler place (maybe up to 65 in summer) that lasted longer. Of course there must be some natural lifetime also, but I have no idea what it is. If you have a place that gets warm in summer, you could probably keep them in the fridge, I don’t imagine that would harm them, but again, I haven’t tried it.

Anyway, worth thinking about for such a nice wine!

30

I think even upper 60s are fine for wines (excluding Champagne imho). Contrary to all the obsessive compulsive hand-wringing you see about a constant 55 degrees and whatever % humidity, I think so long as wine doesn’t undergo large temperature swings in a short period of time, that it will be fine. But winos love the romanticism of the temperature/humidity conundrum, much like Howie Mandel must wear gloves when it’s 90 degrees out [winner.gif] .

31

This will be a fun exploration. As several others have mentioned, few regions offer as much sheer slurping pleasure per dollar spent.

Scott’s post reminds me that there are a LOT of Beau crus that we’ve not tried, and I find myself wondering the best way to do a horizontal tasting. We’ve mostly had Morgon and Fleurie wines - I’d like to experience the typical characteristics of some of the other crus, but I’m not quite sure how to distinguish between those regional variations and winemakers’ stylistic differences.

Anyone have any suggestions for a horizontal tasting across some of the different crus?

32

Steve, one problem is that it’s hard to find a GOOD producer who covers all the towns. Of course you can collect the DuBoeuf flower labels but I don’t think anyone considers them good examples. Brun covers a few towns and I think Descombes does as well.

The simplest way to do a horizontal would be to just get the best example you can find from each of the towns, and fill in the blanks with whatever is available, even if that is DuBoeuf. Of course the best example of DuBoeuf that I know of is the Cuvee Descombes, which was probably one of the first Morgons I tried that got me interested in Beaujolais as a more serious wine. But Morgon has so many producers, you could probably do much better…

33

Peter,

I agree with you. And for all my other wine I think my cellar’s temp range is fine - even for several years of cellaring.

Do you feel as confident about that with low/no s02 wines?

I’m much less sure about those. I don’t have experience with aging such wines. As youngsters they exhibit some wild bottle variation. Which I accept as part of the experience (here I admit I fall for the romantic notion I am tasting a more ‘natural wine’.)

Perhaps for this reason they aren’t really good candidates for cellaring regardless of cellar temps?

34

Good question, maybe if the chemistry guys read this they can answer. I got Ds in chemistry, physics and pre-calc :slight_smile:

35

As far as my own experience goes, all I know is that they lasted longer (one or two summers) in a cooler place–but even the cooler place was not under 57 in summer. Other people say they can be aged, if kept cool enough (there is a thread or two on this over in the other place).


I didn’t notice any bottle variation in the '02 Lapierre Morgon (had maybe 8 bottles all together).

Peter C.: I don’t think physics or chemistry helps much here. The situation is too complicated to be able to be sure what really matters and what doesn’t. This is an engineering question…

36

Being a degreed chemist I can confidentally say that I have no idea.

Schildknecht clearly worries about the non-sulfur storage/transport issue. Lapierre claims that sulfur “modifies the aromas, makes the wine much less fine”. The non-Sulfur method was reportedly the norm in Bojo prior to 1960 and a man named Jules Chauvet, a “modest guru” of traditional Bojo winemaking, influenced Lapierre to change back circa 1980.

Brun reportedly skips the cold maceration, destems, lightly filters, and adds some sulfur. Not that I understand why these things would cause his Fleurie to come across bigger and darker than Lapierre’s Morgon.

RT

37

Small correction: Lapierre uses some sulfur, see http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/showthread.php?p=2888979#post2888979 post #11

38

True indeed. Apparently both the low and non are imported to the US whereas 5+ years ago, it was reportedly just the non. Looks like a 50/50 split, wonder why?

RT

39

OK, I just emailed Lapierre himself to ask if the '07 cuvée Marcel had been sulfured, and what temp it should be kept at. I’ll post his reply.

40

Thanks for the reply Richard. I don’t subscribe to WA anymore, but if David S. has written about this recently I may have to sign back up for a month to read what he has to say.

I’ve had multiple bottles of Lapierre’s wine from each of the last few vintages, but haven’t experienced the bottle variation I have had with a few other producers.
But quite possibly mine have all been the sulfured version.

I look forward to Lapierre’s reply, as I have more of his wine cellared than any other Beau.