A no corkage rant

[Joe_B]

@Scott Zimmermann

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

@Neal.Mollen

At home. I almost never order steak in restaurants because I can buy beef as good as theirs and grill it at home. When I eat out, I like the value added of a chef, and I don’t really get that with a grilled cowboy ribeye.

Pretty much the ONLY time I go to a steak house these days is because someone else wants to go. But it takes ~30 minutes to slow roast in the oven, and then a few minutes each side in a screaming hot pan to finish the reverse sear. It’s a no brainer, and the kitchen lets me open whatever I want with no corkage and no attitude.

Bruce

I feel the same way about steak at steak houses. Also, who made it the “law” that steaks at steak houses come “a la carte” AND the sides cost a fortune.

Not sure. But if you know to ask at mortons, they do have two specials. They don’t tell you them unless you ask. $65 got me salad of choice. Choice of seafood app. Six oz filet. Any side and any desert on the menu

[JulianD]

Must be a site by site thing. In LA, both Mortons and Ruth Chris accept BYO. Ruth’s Chris is $20, and Mortons is $30.

[Anton_D]

@Bdklein

If you read the first post, you’d know. I don’t recall or I’d repost it.

Just sayin’.

I done forgot!

Well, in that case, I don’t support bringing ‘brand new’ wines like that.

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

@Glenn L e v i n e

No corkage + rough pricing = my exit from the joint.

Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris - there has to be a better steak somewhere close.

The Morton’s in New York is a company owned restaurant and allows corkage.
The Ruths Chris in New York is a franchise and allows corkage.
The Smith and Wollenskys in New York was kept by Stillman when he sold off the other restaurants and allows corkage.

I think the problem is the managers in your cities, not company policy.

[Joe_B]

@Anton D

@Bdklein

If you read the first post, you’d know. I don’t recall or I’d repost it.

Just sayin’.

I done forgot!

Well, in that case, I don’t support bringing ‘brand new’ wines like that.

If it helps my backup was the 2005 Shafer Hillside

[Barry_Paul_Price]

@Anton D

So, asking the BYO people, how do you work out what to bring?

Do you check the menu and specials in advance?
Menu Yes, Specials No… until ow. I hadn’t thought of that! Very good idea!

How do you handle your pairings?
Too much time and thought.

Do you simply assume all Italian food will match your Gaja?
Nope. I wanna know what flavors are in it, acid level, fat, etc. It’s stupid, really, but hell I love when the pairing goes well. Really adds to my satisfaction and the group’s satisfaction. at SOME restos with great somms and fair markups I would rather let them choose from their cellar though. Chada in Vegas suggested maybe the best pairing I’ve ever had.

Cloth tables cloths = Bordeaux?
Clearly you are a traditional Bordeaux guy. Modern style Bordeaux requires natural wood tables with no linens.
I ask because I don’t know in advance what I will order, fish, meat, chicken, duck, vegan/vegetables…and how they are prepared. I would feel like I had to over-consider the wine I brought when perusing the menu. I don’t enjoy that aspect.
How do you live a life of such chaos?

Do you BYO ‘just in case’ or is it a given that’s what you are going to be drinking?
Depends. But when I can drink a far better wine AND spend less too, it makes sense to bring it.

I get it for a tasting or like Blake and his lunch posse do with themes the restaurant is aware of, but on a ‘stroll in and order’ basis, I don’t see the joy.
I agree for normal restaurants. On another note, we had a tradition for awhile, when we’d have adult dinner parties, that if we were all still partying at midnight we’d do a run to In 'n Out burger and bring a bottle of CdP hidden in a bag. Fun times.

[Bob_Davis]

@Neal.Mollen

@Glenn L e v i n e

No corkage + rough pricing = my exit from the joint.

Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris - there has to be a better steak somewhere close.

At home. I almost never order steak in restaurants because I can buy beef as good as theirs and grill it at home. When I eat out, I like the value added of a chef, and I don’t really get that with a grilled cowboy ribeye.

Ditto. I have a good butcher for some cuts,Wegmans sells dry aged prime, and Costco sell prime and Chice cuts. I too never order steak at a restaurant.

When we go out if the wines are at gouge level I order bottles I know to be good and decently priced or have a cocktail.

[S_Stevenson]

Why all the hate for steaks at steakhouses? Let them source it, let them cook it at 1800 degrees in their ceramic infrared oven, let them bring it to you while you sipping on a glass of 2013 Sine Qua Non "Résisté about to switch to a 2006 Alban Seymour’s. Let them bring you lobster mash potatoes perfectly cooked. Let them wait on you hand and foot while your listening to sweet piano music in the background. You’re buying the sizzle, not the steak. So it cost a few dollars? So what? That’s what money is for.

Stay at home and cook it yourself? Really? Not me.

[Anton_D]

@Joe B

@Anton D

@Bdklein

If you read the first post, you’d know. I don’t recall or I’d repost it.

Just sayin’.

I done forgot!

Well, in that case, I don’t support bringing ‘brand new’ wines like that.

If it helps my backup was the 2005 Shafer Hillside

[Chris_Seiber]

All those type steakhouses around here allow corkage.

The Irvine Ruth’s Chris has done a superb job for a group of mine having big tastings of First Growths and other things, including making designed placemats to keep track of glasses, handling the bottles for blind tasting, and things like that. Highly recommended as a spot to hold those kinds of dinners.

[Anton_D]

@Barry Paul Price

@Anton D

So, asking the BYO people, how do you work out what to bring?

Do you check the menu and specials in advance?
Menu Yes, Specials No… until ow. I hadn’t thought of that! Very good idea!

How do you handle your pairings?
Too much time and thought.

Do you simply assume all Italian food will match your Gaja?
Nope. I wanna know what flavors are in it, acid level, fat, etc. It’s stupid, really, but hell I love when the pairing goes well. Really adds to my satisfaction and the group’s satisfaction. at SOME restos with great somms and fair markups I would rather let them choose from their cellar though. Chada in Vegas suggested maybe the best pairing I’ve ever had.

Cloth tables cloths = Bordeaux?
Clearly you are a traditional Bordeaux guy. Modern style Bordeaux requires natural wood tables with no linens.
I ask because I don’t know in advance what I will order, fish, meat, chicken, duck, vegan/vegetables…and how they are prepared. I would feel like I had to over-consider the wine I brought when perusing the menu. I don’t enjoy that aspect.
How do you live a life of such chaos?

Do you BYO ‘just in case’ or is it a given that’s what you are going to be drinking?
Depends. But when I can drink a far better wine AND spend less too, it makes sense to bring it.

I get it for a tasting or like Blake and his lunch posse do with themes the restaurant is aware of, but on a ‘stroll in and order’ basis, I don’t see the joy.
I agree for normal restaurants. On another note, we had a tradition for awhile, when we’d have adult dinner parties, that if we were all still partying at midnight we’d do a run to In 'n Out burger and bring a bottle of CdP hidden in a bag. Fun times.

That was awesome.

[Dan_Kravitz]

OK, I happen to like steak, although many of the people I hang out with do not, for various reasons.

I’m ITB and for the most part my portfolio does not jibe well with the atmosphere and ethos of most steak houses, although of course I do my level best to sell them the few wines from my portfolio that DO fit.

Stan wrote:
"Why all the hate for steaks at steakhouses? Let them source it, let them cook it at 1800 degrees in their ceramic infrared oven, let them bring it to you while you sipping on a glass of 2013 Sine Qua Non "Résisté about to switch to a 2006 Alban Seymour’s. Let them bring you lobster mash potatoes perfectly cooked. Let them wait on you hand and foot while your listening to sweet piano music in the background. You’re buying the sizzle, not the steak. So it cost a few dollars? So what? That’s what money is for.

Stay at home and cook it yourself? Really? Not me."

OK, I know of a very few steak houses that do not match the platitudinous assumptions listed below, but in my experience, most suffer severely from the following intolerable negatives:
The 1950’s WASP men’s club atmosphere.
The tired inevitable wood and leather surroundings.
The arrogance.
The pomposity.
The wine lists that offer virtually nothing but multinational drinks companies most soulless, luxurious industrial bottlings and/or rare trophies.
The hideously inflated prices, for both wine and food.
The assumption that you are so incredibly privileged to be permitted to drop a workingman’s week’s salary for a mediocre dinner,
a lot more if you are in one of those with the trophy lists and you buy yourself a trophy.

I truly prize the exceptions. I personally find Bern’s steak mediocre, but never get within a 100 miles of Tampa without stopping for the wine.

Any and everybody please chime in with the names of steak houses you know that do not suffer from the above-mentioned maladies. I wind up all over the country on business, usually without any of my companions who are not steak-eaters, so any recommendations are welcome.
Independents very strongly preferred!

Dan Kravitz

[S_Stevenson]

@Dan Kravitz

OK, I happen to like steak, although many of the people I hang out with do not, for various reasons.

I’m ITB and for the most part my portfolio does not jibe well with the atmosphere and ethos of most steak houses, although of course I do my level best to sell them the few wines from my portfolio that DO fit.

Stan wrote:
"Why all the hate for steaks at steakhouses? Let them source it, let them cook it at 1800 degrees in their ceramic infrared oven, let them bring it to you while you sipping on a glass of 2013 Sine Qua Non "Résisté about to switch to a 2006 Alban Seymour’s. Let them bring you lobster mash potatoes perfectly cooked. Let them wait on you hand and foot while your listening to sweet piano music in the background. You’re buying the sizzle, not the steak. So it cost a few dollars? So what? That’s what money is for.

Stay at home and cook it yourself? Really? Not me."

OK, I know of a very few steak houses that do not match the platitudinous assumptions listed below, but in my experience, most suffer severely from the following intolerable negatives:
The 1950’s WASP men’s club atmosphere. Nope. Not the ones I’ve been in.
The tired inevitable wood and leather surroundings. And what is wrong with that?
The arrogance. Nope.
The pomposity. Nope.
The wine lists that offer virtually nothing but multinational drinks companies most soulless, luxurious industrial bottlings and/or rare trophies. Agree.
The hideously inflated prices, for both wine and food. OK.
The assumption that you are so incredibly privileged to be permitted to drop a workingman’s week’s salary for a mediocre dinner,
a lot more if you are in one of those with the trophy lists and you buy yourself a trophy. Eh, No.

I truly prize the exceptions. I personally find Bern’s steak mediocre, but never get within a 100 miles of Tampa without stopping for the wine.

Any and everybody please chime in with the names of steak houses you know that do not suffer from the above-mentioned maladies. I wind up all over the country on business, usually without any of my companions who are not steak-eaters, so any recommendations are welcome.
Independents very strongly preferred!

Dan Kravitz

[lleichtman]

Since I do reverse sear of great meat at home and we don’t have BYO here, I never go to a steak place unless we are traveling and even then don’t go to ones that don’t allow BYO anyway.

[Mont_Stern]

@Neal.Mollen

@Glenn L e v i n e

No corkage + rough pricing = my exit from the joint.

Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris - there has to be a better steak somewhere close.

At home. I almost never order steak in restaurants because I can buy beef as good as theirs and grill it at home. When I eat out, I like the value added of a chef, and I don’t really get that with a grilled cowboy ribeye.

+1
When people ask me my favorite steakhouse, I tell them it is the “Backyard Chop House”
Hard to beat the combination of a Flannery steak and a great bottle of wine from my cellar.

[David_K2]

I’m happy to eat at a steakhouse when someone else is paying.

[Nathan_Smyth]

@Bob Davis

When we go out if the wines are at gouge level I order bottles I know to be good and decently priced or have a cocktail.

I had to read that sentence like three or four times until I realized that you were saying GOW-jjjjj, not Gouges.

[Philip_N_Jones]

My wife and I have been members of an eight-person monthly dinner club for 39 years and 11 months. August is our 40th anniversary. The club, not the marriage. (The anniversary will be celebrated in the midst of the eclipse.). We take turns picking the restaurant each month. I almost always bring the wine, usually three or four bottles of Zinfandel (Bedrock, Carlisle, Ridge, etc.), but sometimes other varietals. None of us seem to care much about food pairings, or if we do, we order our food accordingly. Here in Portland, there are so many good restaurants that we can’t really keep up with all of them, since they seem to open and close frequently. Corkage is almost universally allowed. Corkage fees are generally run around $20, sometimes more, sometimes less. I cannot remember ever having been denied a corkage. I also can’t remember ever ordering wine off a list. Living the dream. Or at least the wine dream.
Maybe I am stuck in a wine rut. But it is my rut, and I like it. Sometimes even at a steakhouse.
Phil Jones

[Barry_Paul_Price]

@lleichtman

Since I do reverse sear of great meat at home and we don’t have BYO here, I never go to a steak place unless we are traveling and even then don’t go to ones that don’t allow BYO anyway.

What’s a reverse sear? I am genuinely excited to find out! lol.

[Randy_Bowman]

We will probably be going to Cole’s Chop House for our anniversary next week. We go there for the New York, which is so big, we split it. (Of course we’ll have half the appetizers on the menu, their special onion rings, a wedge salad and the house hash browns.) We double check their wine list for two reasons. To make sure we bring wines not on their menu and line up any wines we want from their list. Cole’s has a policy of comping a bottle for each bottle purchased. Otherwise Cole’s corkage fees are reasonable for Napa.

Conversely, there is a nearby restaurant with very low corkage, very reasonable prices for food, yet the wines on their menu are more expensive than those at Cole’s Chop House. They don’t sell much of their wine and are doing so well they don’t think it’s necessary to lower their wine.

As far as no corkage/can’t bring your own, no biggie. If their wine prices are out of line, I can do cocktails, beer or iced tea if that’s the food we want or the restaurant I’m obligated to go to.