Ones off the top of my head are Robuchon, Atelier de JR, Guy Savoy, Alize, Sage, Julian Serrano. My two favorite places although they lack in the ambience of the others we talk about are Raku and Kabuto.
In SF, the very best restaurants I have been to are Coi and Michael Mina. I didn’t really like Atelier Crenn. Only one datapoint however.
You know a lot of it has to do with different taste preferences among different groups of people. If I were to only canvas wine afficionados the results would be different.
Very true - imagine the generic ‘wine lover’ reading preferences of wines that we post here on WB.
I wonder if your results among Americans differ between those who travel and eat out of the US frequently and those who don’t. For example, I spend a fair amount of time in western Europe and have little interest in eating gastronomic French, Spanish, or Italian meals here. I’m much more likely to eat either progressive American cooking or cooking from places where I don’t go. And, at the risk of offending those who like the US outposts of European restaurants, I have yet to eat at one that compares favorably to the original and now avoid them; especially those located in Las Vegas.
I generally agree with this. My whole perspective on dining changed significantly when I started to eat at some of the top non-US places. And I’m also one who thinks that Vegas outposts are generally weak substitutes (although I’ve had a good meal at L’Atelier there), and that Vegas in general is a highly overrated dining city.
Very much agree. I would rather find good places to eat off the strip than spend a small fortune at the places on the strip.
Vegas is a fantastic eating city based on its size and actual population. I’m not sure why it gets shit on all the time. The meals I have at Robuchon (once or twice a year) are always among the best meals of the year. Twist and Guy Savoy are also very good. Other spots, like Lotus, Chada, Raku, Julian Serrano, Jaleo, and the myriad of steak house options would all occupy most cities top 25-30 lists.
I was just going to post that I would never vote a steak house in a top 500 restaurant list.
However thinking about it, what separates a top sushiya from a top steakhouse? aside from the sometimes ridiculous training/traditional apprenticeships for the itamae. A lot of the mystique or “value” of a top sushiya comes from the sourcing of ingredients and proper handling of the ingredients. i.e. don’t f*ck up the $20/gram piece of protein in front of you. Same with a steakhouse.
People may correctly argue that the various knowledge and techniques of preparing 100s of types of seafood overshadows the handling of a side of beef, but really…it’s not that far apart.
That being said…I still don’t care to eat at steakhouses =)
EATING SUSHI MAKES ME FEEL SOPHISTICATED AND WEALTHY OK? GOSH. ;d
John, maybe a dozen top places on the strip but when you think that every hotel has half a dozen restaurants or more and there are tons of hotels, you find a lot of average places that charge premium bucks to eat there.
John, maybe a dozen top places on the strip but when you think that every hotel has half a dozen restaurants or more and there are tons of hotels, you find a lot of average places that charge premium bucks to eat there.[/quote]
You find mediocrity like that in every city X100. What you don’t find in most cities are they number of high level restaurants and the great collection of low-end eats.
I think dining as a hobby falls into two simple categories which I often refer to pre and post Adria. In reality, what that really means is that up until Ferran Adria came along, the primary motivator which made people travel for dining was what the French call gourmandize. If you cut your teeth as a diner before Adria came to prominence, chances are you still enjoy that style of dining which relies heavily on luxury ingredients like foie gras and truffles doused with buttery and rich sauces. And it is a cuisine that lends itself to grand wines. But if you are from a younger generation of diners, odds are that you are more interested in the type of spare, more casual and less fussy, and more cerebral dining experience of a place like Saison or e. In fact there are a number of young bloggers who participate in the survey who make fun of “those old people who still like that buttery French food.” Anyway it is not my job to pass judgment on these opinions, but to document them so that people can see the way tastes are changing and then make up their own minds.
Anyhow, given the comments above, I ran some statistics on the restaurants in the Top 100. I split the restaurants into three categories: Post Adria, Pre-Adria and Other. Here is what I came up with on a quick calculation. And when I say pre and post Adria, I am referring to a style of cooking and a way chefs think about food.
Post - Adria 33% of Top 100 - Average ranking 37.2
Pre - Adria 45% of Top 100 - Average ranking 53.4
Other - 22% of Top 100 - Average ranking 52.0
So if you were to look for a way to measure the direction taste profiles are moving in for the fine dining community, the 16 point difference in average ranking speaks volumes. Or putting that another way, you guys are mostly a bunch of old wine drinking farts who like old fashioned buttery-style dining ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
You find mediocrity like that in every city X100. What you don’t find in most cities are they number of high level restaurants and the great collection of low-end eats.[/quote]
Mediocrity with high prices. Agree on low-end eats and that is why I would rather eat off the strip. Maybe hit one top place a trip.
the 2008 recession, I believe, had a huge effect on fine dining or just eating out. after 2008 success came in the form of the gastropub, or casual-with-a-twist, or more pedestrian ingredients.
I think these days, fine dining is coming back up, but less traditional. Whether I’d link that with Adria or not, I dunno.
Small plates, communal dining tables, more casual approaches to dining- all things that predate 2008.
The comment about sushi and going to sushi places more often is interesting. My wife and I will seldom go to the top places in Chicago like Alinea and L2O more than once a year or so, maybe every couple years, but we have been to Katsu twice in the last 6 weeks (which, for those who haven’t heard of it, got a 29 in Zagat for food). Not flashy and not too big of a production, even casual (brought my 9yr old son when we have gone), but wow the fish has been spectacular… And we will probably go back 3-4 more times this year (BYO friendly to boot!). Sure, not as expensive as Alinea type places but still pricey just doesn’t seem as big a deal to make the reservation and go.
maybe in fancy pants ATL. In Los Angeles, the boom for small plates, communal dining tables is pretty recent.
Ha.
How did In N Out Burger not make it?