RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
User avatar
David Glasser
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: August 16th 2009, 6:03pm
Location: Maryland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6501  Postby David Glasser » May 9th 2014, 7:49am

Kevin Shin wrote:
David Glasser wrote:Not Rudy, but I guess this fits in the "Global Wine Auction Fraud Thread"

http://www.bt.dk/danmark/vinfusk-for-mi ... e#slide-12

The caption translates as:

Of all the over 40 great wines by the couple proved to have been refilled and served several times, Petrus '70 is perhaps the most daring scam. Not because of the price but because the exact same bottle was served twice for Neal Martin. The first time in September 2012 by The White Clubs events in Basel, and in February 2013 he gets it back at the launch of his Pomerol-book. Besides being refilled, there is now also scratched a slightly larger hole in the top of the label, but the many other stains and marks testify fraud.

Here's the TN from Neal that appears to correspond to that tasting:

Wine Journal
Nov 2012 Neal Martin 99 Drink 2012 - 2030 $1708-$4505

Tasted at The White Club’s dinner in Basel. This was a brilliant performance from Pomerol’s most famous resident. Amazingly deep and lucid in colour and showing little sign of its age on the rim, the nose is immediately rivets you to the spot. Tightly wound aromas of blackcurrant pastilles, cold stones and Alpine streams, small dark cherries, terracotta and a hint of thyme. The palate is medium-bodied with perfect balance. It marries intensity with elegance like few others, a Petrus of volume and dimension, a Pandora’s box of delights. The tannins are melted and yet still provide a firm backbone, a deep foundation to this majestic wine that has an effortless quality to it. This is probably one of the finest bottles of Petrus I have encountered. Drink now-2030. Tasted September 2012.


This is why I was critical of the critics attending the mega tastings. I got grilled back then. There is nothing free in life. BTW, I believe Francois Adouze attended the DRC tasting organized by them but Francois can correct me if I am wrong.


Kevin, critics need to be aware of their surroundings, and held accountable for what they print. However, the potential for fraud is NOT a sufficient reason for critics to abstain from attending mega tastings. It is one cause for caution, as is the size of the pour, the time allowed to taste, etc. A critic should be able to attend these sorts of tastings in order to try rare wines, but must go in with eyes open and a healthy dose of skepticism.

BTW, would you characterize the GJE sessions as "mega tastings?" I am not really trying to equate the two, but I want to be precise about the language here. Large tastings offer causes for concern with respect to the tasting conditions, as I've listed above. But a large tasting is not in and of itself a red flag for fraud just because of the number of wines served. OTOH, when you've got old rarities in the lineup with limited documentation of provenance, you need to be on alert for counterfeits.

Advertisement

k s h i n
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2981
Joined: August 17th 2009, 1:23pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6502  Postby k s h i n » May 9th 2014, 8:42am

My reference to “mega tastings” is where a large number of great wines/say two, three plus bottles per person are opened and drunk rapidly, kinda over the top. The GJE sessions are conducted in ideal settings, ie wine temperature, room temperature, stems, clean odorless room and etc.
Kevin
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6503  Postby WvanGorp » May 9th 2014, 9:42am

Kevin, agreed and I might add for the GJE, wines are sourced from the property, not from secondary and tertiary sources.
Wilfred van Gorp
User avatar
David Glasser
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: August 16th 2009, 6:03pm
Location: Maryland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6504  Postby David Glasser » May 9th 2014, 11:08am

Based on your definition, Kevin, I agree. In addition to acquiring wines from the primary source, the tasting conditions are carefully controlled. They are "mega" in numbers of wines tasted, but in a way that produces much more reliable information than the sorts of tastings referenced in this thread.

My larger point is that I wouldn't fault a critic for attending a tasting like the one above, but I would expect them to report with a very cautious eye to the prospect of fakes being served. I would think that episodes like this would make most of them leery of being taken in, to the point of avoiding them for fear of being caught with an effusive description of a later-to-be-proved fake.
k s h i n
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2981
Joined: August 17th 2009, 1:23pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6505  Postby k s h i n » May 9th 2014, 1:59pm

David Glasser wrote:Based on your definition, Kevin, I agree. In addition to acquiring wines from the primary source, the tasting conditions are carefully controlled. They are "mega" in numbers of wines tasted, but in a way that produces much more reliable information than the sorts of tastings referenced in this thread.

My larger point is that I wouldn't fault a critic for attending a tasting like the one above, but I would expect them to report with a very cautious eye to the prospect of fakes being served. I would think that episodes like this would make most of them leery of being taken in, to the point of avoiding them for fear of being caught with an effusive description of a later-to-be-proved fake.


David,
As I posted on ERP, between imprecise nature of human palate and the best con artists ability to produce credible cocktails, it would have been extremely difficult to identify the fakes. In these wine orgies, I doubt that the critics would have spitted and remained sober. Even if the wines were genuine, I am not so sure how credible the TNs could have been in these type of settings.
Kevin
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6506  Postby WvanGorp » May 9th 2014, 3:00pm

Not to mention the over the top hyperbole; it would be comical if Neal weren't serious.
Wilfred van Gorp
User avatar
Zev R
 
Posts: 230
Joined: June 2nd 2009, 11:10pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6507  Postby Zev R » May 10th 2014, 12:18am

"...a Pandora’s box of delights"
No kidding.
- Z. R o g o f f
User avatar
Don Cornwell
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: June 10th 2010, 1:24am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

"THE WHITE CLUB"

Post #6508  Postby Don Cornwell » May 10th 2014, 7:08am

David Glasser wrote:Not Rudy, but I guess this fits in the "Global Wine Auction Fraud Thread"

http://www.bt.dk/danmark/vinfusk-for-mi ... e#slide-12

The caption translates as:

Of all the over 40 great wines by the couple proved to have been refilled and served several times, Petrus '70 is perhaps the most daring scam. Not because of the price but because the exact same bottle was served twice for Neal Martin. The first time in September 2012 by The White Clubs events in Basel, and in February 2013 he gets it back at the launch of his Pomerol-book. Besides being refilled, there is now also scratched a slightly larger hole in the top of the label, but the many other stains and marks testify fraud.

Here's the TN from Neal that appears to correspond to that tasting:

Wine Journal
Nov 2012 Neal Martin 99 Drink 2012 - 2030 $1708-$4505

Tasted at The White Club’s dinner in Basel. This was a brilliant performance from Pomerol’s most famous resident. Amazingly deep and lucid in colour and showing little sign of its age on the rim, the nose is immediately rivets you to the spot. Tightly wound aromas of blackcurrant pastilles, cold stones and Alpine streams, small dark cherries, terracotta and a hint of thyme. The palate is medium-bodied with perfect balance. It marries intensity with elegance like few others, a Petrus of volume and dimension, a Pandora’s box of delights. The tannins are melted and yet still provide a firm backbone, a deep foundation to this majestic wine that has an effortless quality to it. This is probably one of the finest bottles of Petrus I have encountered. Drink now-2030. Tasted September 2012.

David:

You are very sharp-eyed as usual. Yes, this is a major "fake wine" story that broke in Denmark a couple of days ago, in the Danish food and wine magazine called Gastro. The Danish wine writers who broke the story are Andre Devald and Rene Langdahl Jorgensen. They have been working on the story for months and it is meticulously documented. They enlisted the assistance Michael Egan, Maureen Downey and myself and we've been looking at the evidence and helping gather other evidence since January. I understand that the Financial Times will be publishing a story and I think Wine Spectator is working on it as well.

The White Club held itself out as the world's most exclusive rare wine club, consisting of 50 members, all allegedly by invitation only. The club was nominally based in Basel Switzerland, but its two principals -- Rene Dehn and Malene Meisner -- are apparently Danish citizens. They were a couple for many years, but have recently split. Each member was charged 15,000 Euros to join the White Club and a very substantial annual fee which got you nothing more than the right to attend their various dinners held around the world at various locations where up to 16 people would share bottles of old and rare wines. The White Club put on lavish tastings, including one styled as a "once in a lifetime" DRC wine event held at Chateau de Mercurey in Burgundy on December 14-16, 2012.

As the evidence that will come out will show, some of the wines that were served at The White Club dinners were counterfeit to start with, but the most serious issue is that many bottles that were served at White Club events were refilled and then served again at later White Club events. This is a process that went on for several years undetected. At least one noted wine critic was completely fooled. Neil Martin was served at least four refilled bottles of rare wine at a single dinner held in Zurich in March of 2013, which was hosted by Dehn and Meisner to celebrate the publication of Mr. Martin's book entitled "Pomerol." The refilled wines they served him included the 1970 Petrus refered to in David's post (rated 96 by Martin), a 1945 Petrus with a negociant label (rated 95 by Martin), a 1947 Lafleur (rated 98 by Martin), and a 1978 La Tache (bottle No. 003468, which had been opened and served at another White Club event held in March 2012, rated 96 by Martin).

ImageImage
White Club's Twitter post from March 2012 on the left and a photo published by Neil Martin on the right of the bottle he was served by Dehn and Meisner at the Zurich dinner in March of 2013

I suspect that there were likely other refilled bottles included in that dinner as well, but we don't have detailed photos of every bottle that was served at the White Club events. I know that Andre and Rene contacted Neil Martin to ask for his comments for their article, but as of about 10 days before the publication date, he had not responded.

The article published in Denmark on Thursday had multiple side-by-side photos of bottles that had been refilled and served again -- in some cases on at least three occassions. In a couple of cases there were "twofers" -- bottles known to be counterfeit to start with that were refilled and served again. Among them, a bottle of 1900 Chateau Margaux bottled by B&G that was a fake produced by Khaled Rouaba, a Belgian wine retailer who was convicted for counterfeiting in 2002. That bottle was opened at a White Club event held in Denmark in 2009 and then was served again at the purported "once in a lifetime" DRC tasting held in Burgundy in December 2012. Even though the bottle had been refilled, and was opened by Dehn out of the view of anyone else, he purported to show off the purported cork from the bottle. At that December 2012 DRC dinner, a purported bottle of 1945 DRC Richebourg was also served. The wine had a counterfeit label. The same bottle was then refilled and served at another DRC dinner sponsored by the White Club held in London on April 19, 2013. The co-sponsor of the dinner in London luckily retained the bottles and some of the corks from the wines served that evening. Michael Egan, who testified as the government's expert in the Rudy Kurniawan trial and as Bill Koch's expert in the Greenberg trial, examined the purported 1945 Richebourg in London and found it was clearly counterfeit.

ImageImage
The photo on the left was taken of a bottle served at White Club's "once in a lifetime" DRC event held in Burgundy in December 2012. The photo on the right is of the same bottle, which was refilled and served at White Club's "Nine Decades of DRC" held in London on April 19, 2013. The label is counterfeit.

In many cases Dehn and Meisner made efforts to disguise what they were doing, by adding marks, rubbing one or more holes in the labels, or tearing pieces of the label off (as was done above -- I'm unsure whether the additional stain on the top left of the label was an added flourish or the result of a spill at the December 2012 dinner), but older bottles usually develop uniquie marks and stains that will allow matching if you've got lots of patience and the will to pursue it.

There are many, many pairs of similar photographs from various White Club events. The photographs were meticulously meticulously mined for and downloaded by Andre Devald and Rene Jorgensen, including hundreds downloaded from the White Club twitter feed. We also obtained photos from people who attended some of the events. A few days ago, when Malene Meisner found out the article in Denmark was being published, she completely removed the Twitter profile for the White Club.

It is astounding to me that the refilling of bottles has been taking place for many years and yet no one has apparently caught on until Rene Jorgensen and Andre Devald did so earlier this year. We have been told time and time again that Rene Dehn would bring the rare bottles into the room where these dinners were being held with the bottles already open. In many instances he would have corks available for inspection if anyone asked. For example, at the December 2012 DRC dinner, although no one saw the 1900 Margaux (B&G) being opened, Rene Dehn showed off the purported cork from the bottle (which had been refilled at least once since the same bottle was served at White Club's Grand Tasting in Denmark in 2009). Dehn and Meisner were quite bold in posting photographs of the bottles that they had served at various dinners or opened on their own. But no one seemed to detect the fraud. Andre Devald and Rene Jorgensen were looking for possible connections between Rudy Kurniawan and a Danish wine merchant to whom Rudy sent an email only hours before his arrest in March of 2012, when they stumbled across the evidence concerning The White Club.

There's a lot more to this story, including a series of totally false representations about the DRC wines served by Mr. Dehn and Ms. Meisner at the two DRC dinners. I'll add more information later.....
Last edited by Don Cornwell on May 11th 2014, 3:43am, edited 1 time in total.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6509  Postby WvanGorp » May 10th 2014, 10:02am

Here's an announcement about their DRC tasting:

http://www.luxurydaily.com/parmigiani-p ... rtnership/
Wilfred van Gorp
Dale Williams
 
Posts: 883
Joined: April 27th 2009, 10:19am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6510  Postby Dale Williams » May 10th 2014, 10:06am

User avatar
SteveG
 
Posts: 299
Joined: October 13th 2009, 2:13pm
Location: central Ohio

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6511  Postby SteveG » May 10th 2014, 10:29am

WvanGorp wrote:Here's an announcement about their DRC tasting:

http://www.luxurydaily.com/parmigiani-p ... rtnership/

This surely must have featured genuine wines, it took place at the DRC Chateau(?).
steve gurevitz
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6512  Postby WvanGorp » May 10th 2014, 10:31am

No, there was just a tasting at DRC; the dinners were held elsewhere.
Wilfred van Gorp
User avatar
SteveG
 
Posts: 299
Joined: October 13th 2009, 2:13pm
Location: central Ohio

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6513  Postby SteveG » May 10th 2014, 10:57am

WvanGorp wrote:No, there was just a tasting at DRC; the dinners were held elsewhere.

gotcha, thanks
steve gurevitz
User avatar
M A T T H A R T L E Y
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: June 3rd 2009, 8:54am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6514  Postby M A T T H A R T L E Y » May 10th 2014, 12:07pm

Well this is exciting...
___________________________
ITB
User avatar
David Glasser
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: August 16th 2009, 6:03pm
Location: Maryland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6515  Postby David Glasser » May 10th 2014, 1:01pm

Don,thank you for the additional details. I recall being fascinated by Francois' account of that DRC event. I know you've commented that there is still a lot of counterfeiting going on despite Rudy K being in jail. The fact that this pair got away with such bold carelessness for so long is disheartening. It highlights the importance of maintaining a high level of suspicion when faced with an "unbelievable" lineup of wines.
User avatar
billnanson
 
Posts: 1120
Joined: October 22nd 2010, 11:08am
Location: Bern and Beaune

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6516  Postby billnanson » May 11th 2014, 4:08am

WvanGorp wrote:Kevin, agreed and I might add for the GJE, wines are sourced from the property, not from secondary and tertiary sources.

I'm only playing devil's advocate here Wilfred - 'but they would say that wouldn't they'

That wasn't directed at you or GJE, rather towards 'blanket statements'
about.me/nanson
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6517  Postby WvanGorp » May 11th 2014, 7:05am

Hi Bill

After all that has happened, we should ALL be skeptical about provenance. Re the GJE, all I can say is that I've been with Francois many many times when he has literally picked them up from the property.
Wilfred van Gorp
User avatar
billnanson
 
Posts: 1120
Joined: October 22nd 2010, 11:08am
Location: Bern and Beaune

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6518  Postby billnanson » May 11th 2014, 7:50am

That sounds, to my ears, a much better way to put it Wilfred.
about.me/nanson
k s h i n
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2981
Joined: August 17th 2009, 1:23pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6519  Postby k s h i n » May 11th 2014, 9:25am

billnanson wrote:That sounds, to my ears, a much better way to put it Wilfred.


Bill,
The GJE events are not wine orgies. There are some structured tastings held during the world wine symposium, like DRCs, Masseto, D'Yquem, Egon Muller and etc but they are directly sourced from the wineries and always conducted by the winery personnel.
Cheers,
Kevin
Kevin
User avatar
Eric LeVine
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 12073
Joined: January 27th 2009, 9:58pm
Location: Seattle, WA & Bern, Switzerland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6520  Postby Eric LeVine » May 11th 2014, 10:09am

Does GJE ever do massive tastings of really old wines, or are they mostly fairly current release wines and 10 year retrospectives?
-Eric LeVine (ITB)
It rhymes with wine...
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6521  Postby WvanGorp » May 11th 2014, 10:18am

Current wines unless a particular domaine (e.g. DRC) conducts their own tasting led by the proprietor him/herself. In the case of DRC, Mr. de Villaine leads it with bottles he brings to the event (this is for the World Wine Symposium).
Wilfred van Gorp
User avatar
Phil David
 
Posts: 221
Joined: March 9th 2012, 4:17pm
Location: London

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6522  Postby Phil David » May 11th 2014, 11:22am

steve goldun wrote:
Once again I am simply amazed that Acker is still in business....Something just so very wrong with that.


That's sort of understandable. What's even even more wrong, and amazing, is that Rudy is still in business.


Rudy's still in business?
steve goldun
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 77
Joined: October 7th 2009, 10:12am
Location: Los Angeles

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6523  Postby steve goldun » May 11th 2014, 12:32pm

Rudy's still in business?


He owns a wine shop that's managed to avoid being seized by the feds as an asset and/or shut down by the state of CA for license violations.

http://www.abc.ca.gov/datport/LQSData.asp?ID=19426883
Steve Goldun
Los Angeles
ITB
User avatar
David Glasser
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: August 16th 2009, 6:03pm
Location: Maryland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6524  Postby David Glasser » May 11th 2014, 1:59pm

I bet that wont last. Can a convicted felon hold a liquor license in California?
Marc Breitenmoser
 
Posts: 27
Joined: October 28th 2012, 10:12am

"THE WHITE CLUB"

Post #6525  Postby Marc Breitenmoser » May 12th 2014, 12:06am

Don Cornwell wrote:
David Glasser wrote:Neil Martin was served at least four refilled bottles of rare wine at a single dinner held in Zurich in March of 2013, which was hosted by Dehn and Meisner to celebrate the publication of Mr. Martin's book entitled "Pomerol." The refilled wines they served him included the 1970 Petrus refered to in David's post (rated 96 by Martin), a 1945 Petrus with a negociant label (rated 95 by Martin), a 1947 Lafleur (rated 98 by Martin), and a 1978 La Tache (bottle No. 003468, which had been opened and served at another White Club event held in March 2012, rated 96 by Martin).


I was present at the dinner in ZHR and took pictures of the line up as well. Feel free to pm if needed. After reading the Danish piece, I checked the served Lafleur against the pic online and it had the exact same stain at the exact same place. [shock.gif]
User avatar
Bruce Leiser_owitz
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 10603
Joined: June 16th 2009, 12:54pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6526  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » May 12th 2014, 8:34am

steve goldun wrote:
Rudy's still in business?


He owns a wine shop that's managed to avoid being seized by the feds as an asset and/or shut down by the state of CA for license violations.

http://www.abc.ca.gov/datport/LQSData.asp?ID=19426883


I got an email from The Wine Hotel out of the blue the other week about an Insignia vertical tasting at Republique. So they certainly still seem to be in business.

Bruce
"Bruce you are correct."--Andrew Kaufman, 3/24/13.
User avatar
ericleehall
 
Posts: 671
Joined: June 1st 2009, 12:18pm
Location: Healdsburg, CA

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6527  Postby ericleehall » May 12th 2014, 3:16pm

Counterfeit-Wine Dealer Should Serve 14 Years, U.S. Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-1 ... -says.html
All for the Love of Pinot!
User avatar
David Glasser
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: August 16th 2009, 6:03pm
Location: Maryland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6528  Postby David Glasser » May 12th 2014, 3:23pm

From the Bloomberg story:

"Prosecutors said that in 2008 Kurniawan consigned at least 84 bottles of counterfeit wine purporting to be from Domaine Ponsot in Burgundy, France, at an unidentified New York auction house."

Interesting that the prosecutors declined to identify Acker, Merrall as the auction house.
User avatar
Don Cornwell
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: June 10th 2010, 1:24am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6529  Postby Don Cornwell » May 12th 2014, 7:48pm

Jancis Robinson has also weighed in with a fascinating perspective on the White Club and her dealings with Rene Dehn. Jancis describes attending three White Club events and explains why she decided to pull any references to his events some time ago. It's worthwhile reading. http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/a20140511.html
Last edited by Don Cornwell on May 13th 2014, 12:17am, edited 2 times in total.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
User avatar
Don Cornwell
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: June 10th 2010, 1:24am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Additional Arrest and Further Details regarding DRC Counterfeiting Ring in Italy

Post #6530  Postby Don Cornwell » May 13th 2014, 12:13am

NEWS ON DRC COUNTERFEITING RING BASED IN ITALY

As many of you may recall, last October 16 police in Italy, working with Europol and Eurojust on a coordinated investigation of counterfeiting of DRC wines, arrested a pair of Italian wine merchants, a father and son, in connection with sale of counterfeit DRC wines.

A newspaper in Meursault, Le Bien Public, reported on May 7, 2014 that an additional arrest was made on May 4 and additional details of the police raids conducted last October have now been disclosed. On October 16, 2013, police conducted coordinated raids and searches in seven different countries. The police agencies searched twenty different warehouses and business premises and seven people were arrested. The police seized more than 400 bottles of counterfeit DRC wine, with an estimated sale value in excess of two million Euros ($2.75 million) as well as wine counterfeiting equipment. At the time, only the father-son team of wine merchants in Italy were identified in public reports as being arrested. While it now known that an additional five people were arrested, nothing has been publicly disclosed about the identities of the other five persons arrested or where the arrests took place

Shortly after the arrests, French prosecutors in Dijon began formal extradition proceedings to have the father-son tem of wine merchants from Italy extradited to France to face criminal counterfeiting charges. The extradition proceedings remain pending.

On Sunday May 4, 2014, an unidentified Russian national who lives in Milan Italy was arrested in Meursault. He was described by French police as a “major character” in the DRC counterfeiting ring. The police had been searching for him since last October. He was arrested inside a hotel in Meursault where he was scheduled to meet “a potential client.” The Russian national, who was described as being “in his fifties,” was not identified by name. The individual was arraigned and placed in jail.

French police said that the investigation is continuing.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
dbailey
 
Posts: 2584
Joined: September 7th 2009, 8:44am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6531  Postby dbailey » May 13th 2014, 7:08am

Very interesting rereading Francois' account of that drc weekend. He does identify the 1900 Margaux as likely fake and makes numerous comments about the older drcs being disappointing, fortified etc etc...
Dan
Dan Collins
 
Posts: 101
Joined: March 21st 2012, 7:10pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6532  Postby Dan Collins » May 13th 2014, 8:17am

Not to change the subject, but I see the government wants Rudy to do 14 years in prison:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-0 ... s-dot-says
Barry P
 
Posts: 405
Joined: June 18th 2009, 9:00am

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6533  Postby Barry P » May 13th 2014, 8:32am

Don Cornwell wrote:Jancis Robinson has also weighed in with a fascinating perspective on the White Club and her dealings with Rene Dehn. Jancis describes attending three White Club events and explains why she decided to pull any references to his events some time ago. It's worthwhile reading. http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/a20140511.html

I tend not to have much sympathy for reviewers who accept invitations to these Bacchanalia events (usually for free), write about the experiences in flowery and glowing terms, and then ultimately erase the chalkboard when it becomes obvious that they were fooled into believing that they drank from genuine not fake bottles. The counterargument has always been that these are the only avenues through which they can taste old (and exepensive) wine and report on them. Whether or not there are more personal issues at play, e.g., ego, opportunities to live the life, etc., the way in which the commercial wine world seems to have manipulated these folks, combined with the fact that they may now truly have a screwed up idea as to how these wines should taste, speak to the fact that the reviewers may be doing more harm than good and that it is a practice best avoided going forward.
--B@rry Per$hkØw
WvanGorp
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: April 19th 2009, 9:37am

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6534  Postby WvanGorp » May 13th 2014, 8:46am

dbailey wrote:Very interesting rereading Francois' account of that drc weekend. He does identify the 1900 Margaux as likely fake and makes numerous comments about the older drcs being disappointing, fortified etc etc...


I saw he also said he didn't share the view of the organizer (I forget her name, one of the two principals) about some of the wines, and he was not as enthusiastic as she....
Wilfred van Gorp
User avatar
Bruce Leiser_owitz
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 10603
Joined: June 16th 2009, 12:54pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6535  Postby Bruce Leiser_owitz » May 13th 2014, 9:21am

Barry P wrote:
Don Cornwell wrote:Jancis Robinson has also weighed in with a fascinating perspective on the White Club and her dealings with Rene Dehn. Jancis describes attending three White Club events and explains why she decided to pull any references to his events some time ago. It's worthwhile reading. http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/a20140511.html

I tend not to have much sympathy for reviewers who accept invitations to these Bacchanalia events (usually for free), write about the experiences in flowery and glowing terms, and then ultimately erase the chalkboard when it becomes obvious that they were fooled into believing that they drank from genuine not fake bottles. The counterargument has always been that these are the only avenues through which they can taste old (and exepensive) wine and report on them. Whether or not there are more personal issues at play, e.g., ego, opportunities to live the life, etc., the way in which the commercial wine world seems to have manipulated these folks, combined with the fact that they may now truly have a screwed up idea as to how these wines should taste, speak to the fact that the reviewers may be doing more harm than good and that it is a practice best avoided going forward.


It seems like a bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation when a professional reviewer posts notes on wines that later are determined to be fake (or questionable). If someone like Jancis left up her original notes, she would be accused of continuing to promote the suspect wines and event organizers. If she takes it down, she'll be accused of a whitewash. I think it's best to take down the notes, with a public article explaining what happened and why she's taking them down.

This still leaves the tremendous problem with professional reviewers attending these kind of events and posting their notes. We've now seen numerous instances where people involved in selling fake/questionable bottles invite reviewers (and other influential people ITB) to these events in order to burnish their reputations. You have to wonder how many times reviewers ultimately end up getting burned before practices change.

Bruce
"Bruce you are correct."--Andrew Kaufman, 3/24/13.
Dan Collins
 
Posts: 101
Joined: March 21st 2012, 7:10pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6536  Postby Dan Collins » May 13th 2014, 9:47am

The government says Kurniawan sold more than $20 million in fake wine ("in assembly line fashion"), and probably much more. It urges the sentencing judge -- somewhat defensively -- to discount the fact that Rudy's victims were wealthy and look to the magnitude of his crimes. There's also reference to an April 25 "I'm so sorry" letter that Kurniawan wrote to the judge. The letter is not part of the public record, though the government wants it made public. The key in trying to figure out Rudy's sentence in this case is Judge Richard Berman's track record. Maybe somebody who covers the courts in NYC will enlighten us. Berman gave the drug addict son of actor Michael Douglas an additional 4-1/2 years in prison for continuing to do drugs in jail. I thought this harsh, but an appeals court found the sentence reasonable. It's also the case that Berman originally sentenced Cameron Douglas to five years in jail for drug dealing when the federal guidelines called for 10. I'm guessing that he'll give Rudy a 5-year sentence, which means he'll have to do some more time before (presumably) being shipped off to sunny Indonesia.
User avatar
billnanson
 
Posts: 1120
Joined: October 22nd 2010, 11:08am
Location: Bern and Beaune

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6537  Postby billnanson » May 13th 2014, 1:01pm

Barry P wrote:I tend not to have much sympathy for reviewers who accept invitations to these Bacchanalia events (usually for free)

I was invited to the White Club London DRC 'extravaganza' - it seems it wouldn't have been free.
Fortunately I had to stay in and wash my hair that night...
Image
about.me/nanson
User avatar
Don Cornwell
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: June 10th 2010, 1:24am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6538  Postby Don Cornwell » May 13th 2014, 1:43pm

Barry P wrote:
Don Cornwell wrote:Jancis Robinson has also weighed in with a fascinating perspective on the White Club and her dealings with Rene Dehn. Jancis describes attending three White Club events and explains why she decided to pull any references to his events some time ago. It's worthwhile reading. http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/a20140511.html

I tend not to have much sympathy for reviewers who accept invitations to these Bacchanalia events (usually for free), write about the experiences in flowery and glowing terms, and then ultimately erase the chalkboard when it becomes obvious that they were fooled into believing that they drank from genuine not fake bottles. The counterargument has always been that these are the only avenues through which they can taste old (and exepensive) wine and report on them. Whether or not there are more personal issues at play, e.g., ego, opportunities to live the life, etc., the way in which the commercial wine world seems to have manipulated these folks, combined with the fact that they may now truly have a screwed up idea as to how these wines should taste, speak to the fact that the reviewers may be doing more harm than good and that it is a practice best avoided going forward.

Barry:

A very well articulated comment. The same thoughts have been going through my mind.

We've now had four critics who were completely embarrassed by their enthusiastic endorsement of wine counterfeiters or sellers of counterfeit wines -- Michael Broadbent (Hardy Rodenstock), Robert Parker (Hardy Rodenstock, Royal Wine Merchants), Allen Meadows (Rudy Kurniawan, Eric Greenberg and Acker Merrall) and now Neal Martin (Rene Dehn and Malene Meisner).

The pattern is now clear. The fraudsters induce the crtics to come to their events by offering them a "freebie" or "comping" them into the event. The fraudsters use the critic's attendance at their event to legitimize the event itself as well as the wines that they offer, and they hope for the publcation of laudatory comments that they can use to try to sell their counterfeit wines in the future. The critic, who has been "comped" to attend the event, feels compelled to say something laudatory about what was served to him or her in the hope of getting invited to future events. Writing notes on these wines also encourages a lot of people with more money than brains to think that they can buy legitimate versions of wines that disappeared from the market decades ago. It's a vicious cycle and the critics have to realize that they've played a very prominent role in promoting the counterfeitiers and making them successful. This practice needs to end.

It occurs to me that there ought to be some sort of Code of Ethics or Code of Good Practices for wine critics to say publicly that they subscribe to. That Code of Ethics or Good Practices would say that a wine critic should not issue public comments or tasting notes on events where the sponsors/hosts are either in the business of selling old and rare wines or where the sponsors/hosts are engaged in ongoing or frequent sales of old or rare wines at retail or auction.

The Code of Ethics or Good Practices should probably also address the issue of whether critics should accept appearance money for showing up at wine events sponsored by auction houses or wine retailers. For example, for many years I encouraged Allen Meadows to sever all ties with Acker Merrall, but to no avail. Unless plans have been recently changed, it is my understanding that Mr. Meadows will once again be present for Acker Merrall's Burghound in the City event in October of this year.
Last edited by Don Cornwell on May 13th 2014, 2:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
User avatar
Don Cornwell
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: June 10th 2010, 1:24am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6539  Postby Don Cornwell » May 13th 2014, 1:49pm

Peter Hellman from Wine Spectator has published an excellent online article about the White Club. It contains some additional photo pairs of some of the refilled wines. You will fine the article here: http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/49969

I'm still working on a second installment about the White Club that will particularly address the two DRC extravaganza tastings that they held in December 2012 in burgundy and April 2013 in London.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
User avatar
Lewis Dawson
 
Posts: 3875
Joined: June 7th 2009, 5:37pm
Location: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6540  Postby Lewis Dawson » May 13th 2014, 3:02pm

Dan Collins wrote:... I'm guessing that he'll give Rudy a 5-year sentence, which means he'll have to do some more time before (presumably) being shipped off to sunny Indonesia.

Well, if we are going to start an "office pool" to guess the sentence, I'll guess 7 years. I understand that federal sentences must be at least 85% served, so a 15% reduction would net to about 6 years, with about 2.25 years of that already served.
-- Lew --
Italian Bikes &
Fr
Dan Collins
 
Posts: 101
Joined: March 21st 2012, 7:10pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6541  Postby Dan Collins » May 13th 2014, 3:25pm

Lewis Dawson wrote:
Dan Collins wrote:... I'm guessing that he'll give Rudy a 5-year sentence, which means he'll have to do some more time before (presumably) being shipped off to sunny Indonesia.

Well, if we are going to start an "office pool" to guess the sentence, I'll guess 7 years. I understand that federal sentences must be at least 85% served, so a 15% reduction would net to about 6 years, with about 2.25 years of that already served.


Hi Lew,
You may be right. If I was Kurniawan, I'd be terrified. This judge is capable of handing out long sentences. Working in Rudy's favor, I suppose, is the fact that he's a first-time offender and that and his victims are well-to-do. This is mostly a rich-on-rich crime. Working against Rudy is the absence of any substantial mitigating factor. I've seen judges weigh past good conduct in deciding to cut a defendant some slack. (If a recall correctly, the same judge gave one-day-in-jail sentence to a cancer researcher convicted of income tax evasion.) But if Rudy has even dreamed about doing a good deed or performing an unselfish act, you won't find it in the lengthy sentencing letter his lawyers dispatched to the judge. And as the government points out, April 25 is a tad late in the game to be writing an "I'm so sorry" letter to the judge.
User avatar
John Morris
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 9446
Joined: June 21st 2009, 2:09pm
Location: New York City

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6542  Postby John Morris » May 13th 2014, 4:11pm

Don Cornwell wrote:
Barry P wrote:
Don Cornwell wrote:Jancis Robinson has also weighed in with a fascinating perspective on the White Club and her dealings with Rene Dehn. Jancis describes attending three White Club events and explains why she decided to pull any references to his events some time ago. It's worthwhile reading. http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/a20140511.html

I tend not to have much sympathy for reviewers who accept invitations to these Bacchanalia events (usually for free), write about the experiences in flowery and glowing terms, and then ultimately erase the chalkboard when it becomes obvious that they were fooled into believing that they drank from genuine not fake bottles. The counterargument has always been that these are the only avenues through which they can taste old (and exepensive) wine and report on them. Whether or not there are more personal issues at play, e.g., ego, opportunities to live the life, etc., the way in which the commercial wine world seems to have manipulated these folks, combined with the fact that they may now truly have a screwed up idea as to how these wines should taste, speak to the fact that the reviewers may be doing more harm than good and that it is a practice best avoided going forward.

Barry:

A very well articulated comment. The same thoughts have been going through my mind.

We've now had four critics who were completely embarrassed by their enthusiastic endorsement of wine counterfeiters or sellers of counterfeit wines -- Michael Broadbent (Hardy Rodenstock), Robert Parker (Hardy Rodenstock, Royal Wine Merchants), Allen Meadows (Rudy Kurniawan, Eric Greenberg and Acker Merrall) and now Neal Martin (Rene Dehn and Malene Meisner).


In fairness, as I recall, Parker only attended on Rodenstock event, right? And Robinson says she begged off after one event with the Danes, no? Likewise, if you believe Martin (and he seems like a pretty straightup guy), he didn't accept all the Danes' invitations, right?

I would have thought that Broadbent had more opportunities to taste more old wines through his vetting of old cellars, and wouldn't need to rely on the fraudsters so much, though I suppose there are only so many cherries that consignors will open in the interests of due diligence.
"I have some sympathy for these people as I was once caught in a similar situation after using the wrong shampoo on a client's raccoon." -- Craig Gleason

"There is not an infinite linear progression of betterness associated with rising alcohol intake. There is an obvious asymptote, followed by a decline in betterness...." -- Anton Dotson
User avatar
Don Cornwell
 
Posts: 1256
Joined: June 10th 2010, 1:24am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6543  Postby Don Cornwell » May 13th 2014, 4:45pm

John Morris wrote:In fairness, as I recall, Parker only attended on Rodenstock event, right? And Robinson says she begged off after one event with the Danes, no? Likewise, if you believe Martin (and he seems like a pretty straightup guy), he didn't accept all the Danes' invitations, right?

I would have thought that Broadbent had more opportunities to taste more old wines through his vetting of old cellars, and wouldn't need to rely on the fraudsters so much, though I suppose there are only so many cherries that consignors will open in the interests of due diligence.

John:

Eric Levine and others who have weighed in on this before have the accurate count, but I believe that Parker has attended more than one event with Hardy and he certainly attended a number of events with the Royal guys who were distributing Hardy's wines. While Jancis admits to attending three White Club events, I didn't include Jancis in the list because she realized what was happening, stopped attending and removed the notes from her website. I don't know how many times Neal drank wines with The White Club but I know it was at least twice and perhaps more. Meadows drank wines with Rudy countless times. After Rudy got arrested Allen removed Rudy's name from the notes on the wines he supplied, but didn't remove the notes themselves. The point is Broadbent, Parker, Meadows and Martin all praised their respective countefeiter beneficiaries to the skies and gave incredible scores to the wines. There was no retraction or correction and no apologies made when the truth came out. These particular critics made the counterfeiters into wine folk-heros as well as making fools of themselves.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
User avatar
Glenn Gallup
 
Posts: 202
Joined: March 12th 2012, 3:37pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6544  Postby Glenn Gallup » May 13th 2014, 5:46pm

"These particular critics made the counterfeiters into wine folk-heros as well as making fools of themselves"

So from this point my plan is to disregard anything they say about wine. Bear in mind that this means nothing to the wine business.
I have taken more out of alcohol
User avatar
David Glasser
(Online)
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: August 16th 2009, 6:03pm
Location: Maryland

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6545  Postby David Glasser » May 13th 2014, 9:24pm

As easy as it is to fool the "experts," and despite the damning history, I still think it's OK for critics to attend tastings with rare wines. But they should include disclosures about financial interests (the organizers' and their own) and disclaimers about provenance. Though I doubt that would actually ever happen, I would rather have access to the information and make my own judgment as to its validity.
André Devald
 
Posts: 3
Joined: June 3rd 2009, 4:23pm

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6546  Postby André Devald » May 14th 2014, 2:35am

Don Cornwell wrote:While Jancis admits to attending three White Club events, I didn't include Jancis in the list because she realized what was happening, stopped attending and removed the notes from her website.

Don Cornwell wrote:I don't know how many times Neal drank wines with The White Club but I know it was at least twice and perhaps more. The point is Broadbent, Parker, Meadows and Martin all praised their respective countefeiter beneficiaries to the skies and gave incredible scores to the wines. There was no retraction or correction and no apologies made when the truth came out.


Neal participated in four of their events, Jancis in three. To be fair, Jancis did in fact praise Meisner and Dehn until she quietly removed her articles. I'm not pointing fingers at her in any way, she has been very helpful, but the same goes for Neal. Unlike many others, he has willingly provided us with pictures from the events and answered our questions, even if he knew that the outcome could cause him a headache. Yes, he has been naive, just like Jancis and a lot of other people in this case, especially in South Africa, but let's give him a break until he's fully aware of which wines he tasted were refills and which were (maybe) genuine.
User avatar
John Danza
 
Posts: 1095
Joined: December 4th 2009, 1:23pm
Location: Chicagoland

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6547  Postby John Danza » May 14th 2014, 6:50am

John Morris wrote:I would have thought that Broadbent had more opportunities to taste more old wines through his vetting of old cellars, and wouldn't need to rely on the fraudsters so much, though I suppose there are only so many cherries that consignors will open in the interests of due diligence.


The point you make is a good one and is the primary reason I've always wondered about Broadbent's frequenting the Hardy events. The other critics I understand being "star struck" by rarities getting opened in front of them. But Broadbent had been exposed to so many fantastic cellars with legitimate old wines that hadn't moved for decades, so he would have known what these wines really do taste like and what the bottle conditions can be under those optimal conditions. He had to know many of these wines were bullshit, unless Hardy served legit old wines at the events as a way to tee up the selling of his fake stocks, which didn't get opened at the events. I'm sure a lot of this has been beaten up in years past, but I think the Broadbent/Hardy Rodenstock situation is different than the recent run regarding Rudy and the Danes.
John Danza
User avatar
andy velebil
 
Posts: 4354
Joined: February 2nd 2009, 5:54pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6548  Postby andy velebil » May 14th 2014, 7:29am

John Danza wrote:
John Morris wrote:I would have thought that Broadbent had more opportunities to taste more old wines through his vetting of old cellars, and wouldn't need to rely on the fraudsters so much, though I suppose there are only so many cherries that consignors will open in the interests of due diligence.


The point you make is a good one and is the primary reason I've always wondered about Broadbent's frequenting the Hardy events. The other critics I understand being "star struck" by rarities getting opened in front of them. But Broadbent had been exposed to so many fantastic cellars with legitimate old wines that hadn't moved for decades, so he would have known what these wines really do taste like and what the bottle conditions can be under those optimal conditions. He had to know many of these wines were bullshit, unless Hardy served legit old wines at the events as a way to tee up the selling of his fake stocks, which didn't get opened at the events. I'm sure a lot of this has been beaten up in years past, but I think the Broadbent/Hardy Rodenstock situation is different than the recent run regarding Rudy and the Danes.

John,
You're missing the real point with many wine drinkers and reviewers. For some, which includes most professional or semi-professional reviewers, it's a status symbol to be able to say you've tasted so many super old wines. So the opportunity for them to taste, usually for free, some potentially rare old wines generally makes it impossible for them to say no to. Well, at least at first and before doing their homework on the bottles and people hosting. And some of these wine reviewers are getting some portion (or all) of their travel/accommodations paid for by the hosts*. It also allows them to network with the more affluent types.

I have no issues with the later so long as they disclose the host is paying for certain things, like travel costs, accommodations, etc.

*This does not include winery visits in remote places. As it's impossible, or near impossible, to find accommodations or transportation anywhere near by. So one has to stay with the owner or winemaker. I'm only talking about these non-winery organized events, hosted by private people.
I'm a Port drinking fool!
k s h i n
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2981
Joined: August 17th 2009, 1:23pm

More on WHITE CLUB

Post #6549  Postby k s h i n » May 14th 2014, 7:30am

John Danza wrote:
John Morris wrote:I would have thought that Broadbent had more opportunities to taste more old wines through his vetting of old cellars, and wouldn't need to rely on the fraudsters so much, though I suppose there are only so many cherries that consignors will open in the interests of due diligence.


The point you make is a good one and is the primary reason I've always wondered about Broadbent's frequenting the Hardy events. The other critics I understand being "star struck" by rarities getting opened in front of them. But Broadbent had been exposed to so many fantastic cellars with legitimate old wines that hadn't moved for decades, so he would have known what these wines really do taste like and what the bottle conditions can be under those optimal conditions. He had to know many of these wines were bullshit, unless Hardy served legit old wines at the events as a way to tee up the selling of his fake stocks, which didn't get opened at the events. I'm sure a lot of this has been beaten up in years past, but I think the Broadbent/Hardy Rodenstock situation is different than the recent run regarding Rudy and the Danes.


Based on my past experiences, I beg differ. A friend brought a bottle of the 29 LMHB and share with a few critics. The wine was completely oxidized but there were a number of the tasters who praised the wine, usual glorious adjectives. Met a couple well known old wine guys who had absolutely no clue what they were tasting.
Kevin
k s h i n
SubscriberSubscriber
 
Posts: 2981
Joined: August 17th 2009, 1:23pm

RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

Post #6550  Postby k s h i n » May 14th 2014, 7:33am

IMO, there is absolutely no benefit to the readers if a critic taste the 45 DRC, Mouton and etc. It doesn’t provide much help in forecasting how the younger wines will evolve.
Kevin

Return to Wine Talk

logo
Food Advertising by